Scotland Debate

[Val]

And no-one has said that there won't be. So other than staying in the UK what are you voting for if you vote NO. Again - all I'm saying on this is that BT are not giving Scots any vision for the future.

Ok let me give another scenario as I don't think I'm clear enough.

The local bank opens at 9 but there is a local committee asking people to vote on it opening at 10, what happens if they don't win the vote?

The answer it is that it opens at 9. No one has said it will change if no one vote the 10 through.

This is exactly the same, no one has said there WILL be change in the event of a no therefore no one HAS to say there won't be change.

 

[Val]

No I'm not - voting NO is clearly voting to stay in the UK and for the status quo. Tell me what else voting NO brings then>

Thing is I'm not hearing from BT any vision for a future Scotland in the UK when maybe some undecided voters might like a bit of vision from BT - because they don't really like the status quo.

If I am wrong tell me what BT have in mind for Scotland in the future - other than more of the same. And with that I think BT are running a risk with the undecideds.

I've said this already, we know what Scotland is like now, all BT have to do is point out how much worse it will be post YES, that is their vision currently as far as I see it.

 

[Foxholer]

Theoretically, yes.But I do realise there has to be a point at which demands for independence stops...Leith from Edinburgh is my own personal crusade.But I do think there is a strong feeling that Orkney/Shetland and maybe to a lesser degree The Outer Hebrides feel as disenfranchised from Edinburgh as London.

That's about as likely (or sensible imo) as Stockbridge, or any other suburb, from Edinburgh these days!

 

[Adi2Dassler]

That's about as likely (or sensible imo) as Stockbridge, or any other suburb, from Edinburgh these days!

It was a (slightly) tongue in cheek remark about how micro do things go before it gets silly.But point of order re:Leith and any other suburb
Leith certainly is different to any other area of Edinburgh, and given brutal way the area is treated by the council, unlike any other area, my antipathy towards Edinburgh council is significant.

 

[FairwayDodger]

It was a (slightly) tongue in cheek remark about how micro do things go before it gets silly.But point of order re:Leith and any other suburb
Leith certainly is different to any other area of Edinburgh, and given brutal way the area is treated by the council, unlike any other area, my antipathy towards Edinburgh council is significant.

It must be a rough deal indeed if Leith gets treated any worse by the council than the rest of us. Incompetents, every one!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So SLH do you suggest that Westminister offer the people of Scotland a bribe to stay in the UK. I'm sure the rest of us would love that.

I'm not suggesting that at all. All I want to hear is something that says 'we have told you all the reasons you shouldn't vote YES - so in addition to that here is what we see as being the benefits for Scotland voting to stay in the Union'

Or are there no benefits? Well of course there are benefits - so let's hear BT tell us of them. Do BT think that in time Scotland will be able to have 'devo max'? Would almost certainly be a sure way of completely killing off the risk of a YES. Is that a bribe?

If BT can't or won't offer more than the status quo then I think they are running a risk with the undecideds. I would have thought that to be self-evident. You are right I am sure that many undecideds will be happy with the status quo - even although they might not like it - it being preferable to life under a YES. But there I am also convinced that there will be some who will not be so sure,

See also Matthew Norman piece in Independant today

England should beg Scotland to stay

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm not suggesting that at all. All I want to hear is something that says 'we have told you all the reasons you shouldn't vote YES - so in addition to that here is what we see as being the benefits for Scotland voting to stay in the Union'

Or are there no benefits? Well of course there are benefits - so let's hear BT tell us of them. Do BT think that in time Scotland will be able to have 'devo max'? Would almost certainly be a sure way of completely killing off the risk of a YES. Is that a bribe?

If BT can't or won't offer more than the status quo then I think they are running a risk with the undecideds. I would have thought that to be self-evident. You are right I am sure that many undecideds will be happy with the status quo - even although they might not like it - it being preferable to life under a YES. But there I am also convinced that there will be some who will not be so sure,

I think the very fact that there won't be a cataclysmic meltdown of western civilisation is a benefit..........

 

[CMAC]

I'm not suggesting that at all. All I want to hear is something that says 'we have told you all the reasons you shouldn't vote YES - so in addition to that here is what we see as being the benefits for Scotland voting to stay in the Union'

Or are there no benefits? Well of course there are benefits - so let's hear BT tell us of them. Do BT think that in time Scotland will be able to have 'devo max'? Would almost certainly be a sure way of completely killing off the risk of a YES. Is that a bribe?

If BT can't or won't offer more than the status quo then I think they are running a risk with the undecideds. I would have thought that to be self-evident. You are right I am sure that many undecideds will be happy with the status quo - even although they might not like it - it being preferable to life under a YES. But there I am also convinced that there will be some who will not be so sure,

Please have a day off! This is getting tedious.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Please have a day off! This is getting tedious.

I am not talking for me - I don;t'get a vote. I am simply pointing out that I think it stupid for BT to rely on the status quo and fear to ensure a NO

 

[Adi2Dassler]

It must be a rough deal indeed if Leith gets treated any worse by the council than the rest of us. Incompetents, every one!

I think it does.

The Tram (singular) meant to come down to Leith, now stops at Picardy Place...but not before Leith Walk is virtually closed for over a year,closing business and stopping folk habitually driving down Leith Walk.The Walk hasn't recovered and probably won't.

LeithWaterWorld, closed by the council.A Collective of local parents/business owners got together and made an offer to council to operate it at not-for-profit...council declined,sold it to a soft play company, who in turn will under cut the locally ran soft plays, closing them too!

The old railway offices on Duke Street/Leith Walk-currently being turned into a homeless/addict refuge, on top of the constant use of B&Bs on the links to house junkies, doing zero for the area trying to move away from that blight.

Tell me another area of the city treated to badly?

 

[FairwayDodger]

I think it does.

The Tram (singular) meant to come down to Leith, now stops at Picardy Place...but not before Leith Walk is virtually closed for over a year,closing business and stopping folk habitually driving down Leith Walk.The Walk hasn't recovered and probably won't.

LeithWaterWorld, closed by the council.A Collective of local parents/business owners got together and made an offer to council to operate it at not-for-profit...council declined,sold it to a soft play company, who in turn will under cut the locally ran soft plays, closing them too!

The old railway offices on Duke Street/Leith Walk-currently being turned into a homeless/addict refuge, on top of the constant use of B&Bs on the links to house junkies, doing zero for the area trying to move away from that blight.

Tell me another area of the city treated to badly?

I wasn't arguing, just pointing out that Edinburgh council are the most useless shower of halfwits ever to walk the planet. Trams, congestion charge, residents parking, statutory notices etc etc etc

I live between Leith Walk / Easter Road so aware of much of what you say....

 

[Old Skier]

England should beg Scotland to stay

And there lies the problem, everybody just refers to England when the whole thing involves the whole of UK and even includes all those Englander hating Scots living in England.

Plus bribing Scotland would be political suicide and the SNP know that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And there lies the problem, everybody just refers to England when the whole thing involves the whole of UK and even includes all those Englander hating Scots living in England.

Plus bribing Scotland would be political suicide and the SNP know that.

Well since most here seem to think that the BT and Westminster strategy for the referendum is doing just fine - here's what the Indy columnist opens with:

In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?

Seems then that I am not the only one who thinks BT are playing with fire

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Here's a link to a lengthy pdf from a very good source, non political, but long.

http://www.royalsoced.org.uk/cms/files/events/reports/2013-2014/The Book.pdf

 

[Old Skier]

Well since most here seem to think that the BT and Westminster strategy for the referendum is doing just fine - here's what the Indy columnist opens with:

In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?

Seems then that I am not the only one who thinks BT are playing with fire

The two things I ignore - papers and politicians, they have an agenda which is in their, not everyday peoples, interest. I prefer to listen to people.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm not suggesting that at all. All I want to hear is something that says 'we have told you all the reasons you shouldn't vote YES - so in addition to that here is what we see as being the benefits for Scotland voting to stay in the Union'

Or are there no benefits? Well of course there are benefits - so let's hear BT tell us of them. Do BT think that in time Scotland will be able to have 'devo max'? Would almost certainly be a sure way of completely killing off the risk of a YES. Is that a bribe?

If BT can't or won't offer more than the status quo then I think they are running a risk with the undecideds. I would have thought that to be self-evident. You are right I am sure that many undecideds will be happy with the status quo - even although they might not like it - it being preferable to life under a YES. But there I am also convinced that there will be some who will not be so sure,

See also Matthew Norman piece in Independant today

England should beg Scotland to stay

Why should the UK offer anything more than what is currently happening

It's not the UK that want change , it's not the UK that want Scotland Independant

It's not up to the UK to sell the No vote

It appears ( mainly because you keep repeating the same thing over and over again ) that you don't get that point

 

[CMAC]

Well since most here seem to think that the BT and Westminster strategy for the referendum is doing just fine - here's what the Indy columnist opens with:

In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?

Seems then that I am not the only one who thinks BT are playing with fire

What's the relevance of that one individual? As relevant as your assumptions methinks. Why on earth are you getting so excited about non facts, assumptions and hearsay?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not everyone here is or has been in the forces so you shouldn't assume it's acceptable everywhere.

As was already highlighted a long time ago, people accept this from people they tend to know and others (like me) don't tend to like it from strangers.

Again, this debate goes round in circles, no-one will agree so it's best being dropped

If it's best being dropped then highlight that too Doon who used me calling Scottish people "Jocks" as it appears as some sort of proof that I'm anti Scottish

I'm sorry that you find the word that appalling/racist and I will not use it aimed towards you but will continue to use it in banter with my fellow uk citizens from above the wall that I have met in the past and will meet in the future.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am not a YES voter.

I simply think that the BT and Westminster campaign could and should do more to sell Scotland as part of the UK as I think it is a risky game for them just to say "we don't have to as it's up to YES to sell an iScotland"

If BT and Westminster choose not to then so be it - I think it's a mistake.

Polls say voters want a more positive NO message

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/positive-no-message-wanted.23979055

 

[Old Skier]

As some like to quote from the papers http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...eferendum-woefully-unprepared-yes-vote-impact