S&T interview (for those who've not seen it)

[birdieman]

Owww.......brain overload.

Paralysis by analysis I think they call it.



My understanding of shot shapes-

In to out, square face = draw
In to out, open face = push or block
In to out, closed face = duck hook

Out to in, square face = fade
Out to in, open face = slice
Out to in, closed face = pull hook

Straight path, square face = straight shot


I suppose someone's going to tell me that's all wrong?:smirk:

 

[JustOne]

I suppose someone's going to tell me that's all wrong?:smirk:

Yeh, it's wrong :ears:

 

[jdchelsea]

No I said the ball should be hit from the inside with an open clubface...(I prefer a push-draw) if you're aligned square you get a push-draw (ball moving towards target not away from it) if you align open (approx 5°) you get straight flight.... with a 6-iron I think it's 2.5° more with longer clubs, if we do what you (Hogan) said the ball would always be moving left AWAY from the flag.

Actually here's a Trackman link for you... http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter5.pdf

Ok I think I found a good video to describe what I think your trying to say

www.trackman.dk/Media/Videos/Josh-Zander.aspx

From your link and my own they both say the club should be square. The club path is dependant on club being used but yes it does suggest for an iron you should come slightly (2 degrees) outside in (due to the downward attack angle).

I still say a shot hit with an inside club path and square face will not go left unless hit overly from the inside. Given the correct inside path i.e. not to far inside, it will result in a draw. Because as we've already seen club face decides 85% of initial direction and club path 15%. So clubface wants to go straight and the inside club path wants to hit the ball right with hook spin. So dependant on how far inside the club comes will determine if it's a draw or a hook.

 

[JustOne]

Ok I think I found a good video to describe what I think your trying to say.

You're now trying to preach to someone who already knows this stuff. I'm the one trying to show YOU.

"Thanks James" would suffice

 

[jdchelsea]

You're now trying to preach to someone who already knows this stuff. I'm the one trying to show YOU.

"Thanks James" would suffice

Another reply again showing your class or lack of it.

Why would I thank you when you were wrong? In fact you 85% wrong! The clubface should be square for straight flight not open. And if you want to find out who's preaching take a look in the mirror.

 

[JustOne]

Another reply again showing your class or lack of it.

Why would I thank you when you were wrong? In fact you 85% wrong! The clubface should be square for straight flight not open. And if you want to find out who's preaching take a look in the mirror.

Yeh but it's not really 'square' if you're standing 5° open is it? Don't worry, you stick to your hook if you're not gracious enough to say you were wrong.

 

[jdchelsea]

Yeh but it's not really 'square' if you're standing 5° open is it? Don't worry, you stick to your hook if you're not gracious enough to say you were wrong.

It's it's square to your target line. Whatever way you stand is irrelevant - the ball doesn't know what way you're standing!

I'm big enough to say that trackman suggest a slight in to out swing will produce a straight flight but with a square face not an open one! I'll also say inside path with a square face will not cause a pull hook. Opening your stance and trying to swing slightly out to in with an open face sounds like terrible advice and has slice written all over it.

I'll also say you've chopped and changed your views throughout your posts so I don't think your attitude is necessary.

 

[JustOne]

It's it's square to your target line. Whatever way you stand is irrelevant - the ball doesn't know what way you're standing!

I'm big enough to say that trackman suggest a slight in to out swing will produce a straight flight but with a square face not an open one! I'll also say inside path with a square face will not cause a pull hook. Opening your stance and trying to swing slightly out to in with an open face sounds like terrible advice and has slice written all over it.

I'll also say you've chopped and changed your views throughout your posts so I don't think your attitude is necessary.

You're not really sure what you are talking about are you?

 

[jdchelsea]

Made a typo in last post should have said "trackman suggest a slight out to in swing path". That clear things up for you?

 

[JustOne]

I don't need it clearing up for me, I know how it works, it's you that seems confused.

 

[jdchelsea]

I don't need it clearing up for me, I know how it works, it's you that seems confused.

I'm confused?! tell me again how a inside path with a square clubface causes a pull hook

 

[JustOne]

I'm confused?! tell me again how a inside path with a square clubface causes a pull hook

You seem to think it goes straight!

 

[jdchelsea]

You seem to think it goes straight!

it's certainly a lot closer to being straight than it is a pull hook!!

it's quite complex science with a lot of variables but the essence of my original post of it are still correct in to in with a square face will hit the ball straight. It may be that shifting the in to in plane with a square face slightly by opening or closing your stance may give the optimal straight shot depending on ball position, attack angle, club used and centeredness (if thats a word) of hit.

Ben Hogan actually had it quite close to perfect then when he described his feet position/stance all those years ago:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=ho...tart=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=92&ty=98

 

[JustOne]

Ben Hogan actually had it quite close to perfect then when he described his feet position/stance all those years ago:

Why would you EVER want your right foot back for hitting irons? As Trackman explains you need your plane base to be LEFT to hit straight shots with irons. The only way that Hogan's method works in the remotest is if you put the ball at the front of your stance (like Hogan also did) and try and pick it clean (no divot) when the path is returning to the inside.... nightmare, no one would ever teach that any more.

Hogan used to fight a hook... and you can see why. His whole book (5 lessons) is structured around his misfortune to be a hooky player. If someone who slices the ball (which 99% of golfers do) reads that they are playing with fire and will likely never be able to play the game well.

Hogan is sooooooo last year.

 

[jdchelsea]

Hogan is sooooooo last year.

sorry I actually attached the wrong link. the first link was actually from a site that had altered hogans image.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=be...6&tbnw=149&start=0&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0