The DEFINITIVE S&T video...........

[Hobbit]

I respect that but you are a long learned golfer who doesn't really have a need/interest in it any more, you're happy with what you do already because you've achieved enough in your game over the years to make you (kind of?) happy with it, would you do it the same if you started RIGHT NOW?

I played to a decent level without knowing the ball flight laws and have regretted all those wasted years ever since I found out what the truth was and just how easy it is to play golf. I've seen all my mates over the years throw their cash at teaching pros that were basically teaching them a load of rubbish, fleecing their cash off them once per month for a 'quick fix' that wasn't even getting their swing remotely to where it should have been. 20yrs later and they are still rubbish.

What would I do different if I took up the game today? I would have loved to have the coach I found in the late 80's. He was a little different to the genre at the time in so much as he didn't teach the one size fits all. He worked at what you had, irrespective of handicap, and gave you a game that could make you happy.

Would it have changed how I played the game, or my ambitions within it? No, I've loved the game and what I've achieved. I might not have won anything significant but its been a blast. And hopefully there be a lot of years of play ahead. They might not be as a Cat 1 but hey, if the handicap goes up so be it. Getting churned up about handicap is one of the things that stops people achieving.

Mates not achieving stellar results; some coaches are ... disappointing and some are great. Equally, some people never become good because its just not a sport that they will ever be good at whatever opportunities they get.

 

[JustOne]

...hopefully there be a lot of years of play ahead. They might not be as a Cat 1 but hey, if the handicap goes up so be it. Getting churned up about handicap is one of the things that stops people achieving.

Yes, but it IS easier to say that when you've been low, in fact I got to the stage when I thought... "I don't even WANT to be low any more"

... just preparing my entry form for the Trilby Tour :mmm:

 

[Captain_Black]

I do have trouble with my weight shift or rather lack of it, I find trying to time the weight shift correctly almost impossible.
The way I play is to keep most of my weight on my front foot & to keep a constant ball position & just adjust my stance width according to the club I am using.

Where I differ from the S&T is that I tend to lean my spine away from the target, if I try to stand straighter or even lean slightly towards the target, my swing feels very cramped.

 

[One Planer]

Where I differ from the S&T is that I tend to lean my spine away from the target, if I try to stand straighter or even lean slightly towards the target, my swing feels very cramped.

I don't follow you here CB.

If you take Charlie Wi as an example, as he's the patterns poster boy:

He doesn't lean his spine towards the target, it only changes flex.

 

[JustOne]

if I try to stand straighter or even lean slightly towards the target, my swing feels very cramped.

I don't think there's any swing on the planet that advocates leaning towards the target. If you did that your swing would be REALLY steep and/or you'd have great difficulty transferring your weight with your hips stuck underneath you. There are swings that suggest a slight hip bump towards the target at address (kind of into a reverse K position) but again once you've bumped your hips forward that little bit they tend to get stuck there as it's hard to bump them TWICE if you know what I mean.

I would say that what the shoulders are doing will to an extent control what you can/can't do with your hips.. if your shoulders have moved to the right in your backswing then should you decide to bump your hips your head would be miles to the right still.. and likely you'll get trapped on your back foot. Don't know if that helps but it just an observation.

 

[JustOne]

Waiting for my post from 20 minutes ago to be authorised by a mod :mmm:

 

[thecraw]

I do have trouble with my weight shift or rather lack of it, I find trying to time the weight shift correctly almost impossible.
The way I play is to keep most of my weight on my front foot & to keep a constant ball position & just adjust my stance width according to the club I am using.

Where I differ from the S&T is that I tend to lean my spine away from the target, if I try to stand straighter or even lean slightly towards the target, my swing feels very cramped.

Just swing properly then buddy must be simpler than tilting your spine, worrying about angles etc.

 

[JustOne]

Waiting for my post from 20 minutes ago to be authorised by a mod :mmm:

ooh, it's just arrived...... post #25

(feels like I've just received a letter! ...all excited now)

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

I don't follow you here CB.

If you take Charlie Wi as an example, as he's the patterns poster boy:

He doesn't lean his spine towards the target, it only changes flex.

His spine is leaned toward the target. This piece cannot be seen from this view.

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Please find picture attached.

 

[JustOne]

His spine is leaned toward the target. This piece cannot be seen from this view.

I'm going to have to believe you there.. not that I want to but I respect your opinion.. :thup:

I have it as such... (back of pelvis to back of neck)

[click pic to enlarge...]




I don't agree with your lines on the other pics (that I just noticed you posted) either... for example the one of Sean O'hair the base of his spine would be in line with the seam in the bum of his trousers... unless he puts his trousers on sideways? and our shoulder blades and shoulders aren't our spine. You seem to have the top of each line very much away from the base of the neck (allowing for spine curvature?) even if my line finishes where yours does neither are beyond vertical,... in my opinion. O'hair would be bang on vertical and Wi just a sniff inside.

Edit:

I've just remade your pics and I would (personally) put the spines here.... [again, click pic to enlarge...]

 

[Hobbit]

Please find picture attached.

Is there a bit of journalistic licence being used with these 2 photo's? To me, if you look at the belt loops/centre seam on the trousers, the line superimposed on the pics doesn't match up with where I'd expect the spine to be.

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

To illustrate from a different view or as Brandel Chamblee said the wrong camera angle, which is precisely the point!

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Is there a bit of journalistic licence being used with these 2 photo's? To me, if you look at the belt loops/centre seam on the trousers, the line superimposed on the pics doesn't match up with where I'd expect the spine to be.

Unless the pics were X-ray its difficult to get it correct, I appreciate what your'e saying. "journalistic licence" is not my intention.

The 3D data provides enough evidence for this description / picture being discussed.

 

[JustOne]

I don't see a lean towards the target in any of those pics Sam (towards the ball? Yes) in fact they are all really non-conclusive.

(the blue line you had on the back of Sean O'Hair actually leads into his back right pocket)

From the back at a glance both would look like they are leaning left to a casual observer though.

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

3D Data for players is far superior in this instance than pictures.

 

[JustOne]

3D modelling would certainly be more conclusive than a few lines on pics, as force plates are/were for determining the weight shift.

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Unfortunately I'm not a liberty to share the 3D info I have from Tour Players / force plate data is readily available and confirms how a centred should turn is described.

 

[JustOne]

Back of pelvis to back of right shoulder?





If I draw that onto the O'Hair/Wi pictures they come up even less tilted towards the target. And that Hogan pic doesn't take into consideration a turn of more than 90 degrees with the shoulders (for what it's worth it's feasible that the right shoulder could be even closer to the target on a bigger shoulder turn).

Assuming the Hogan picture has the hips and shoulders at the top aligned with the picture below, an extension of that yellow vertical line would put his spine as such...(long yellow line) however, if we take a line to the back of his shoulder blades (closer to your position) then we could claim that Hogan was also leaning towards the target (red line).... he wouldn't be happy!

 

[SamQuirkePGA]

Back of pelvis to back of right shoulder?

View attachment 3781



If I draw that onto the O'Hair/Wi pictures they come up even less tilted towards the target. And that Hogan pic doesn't take into consideration a turn of more than 90 degrees with the shoulders (for what it's worth it's feasible that the right shoulder could be even closer to the target on a bigger shoulder turn).

Assuming the Hogan picture has the hips and shoulders at the top aligned with the picture below, an extension of that yellow vertical line would put his spine as such...(long yellow line) however, if we take a line to the back of his shoulder blades (closer to your position) then we could claim that Hogan was also leaning towards the target (red line).... he wouldn't be happy!

View attachment 3782

Got to think 3D not 2D