Ruling question

[NOTKNOWN]

Hi guys.
I am new to this forum. My first post with a question.

I was playing yesterday in a medal comp. We all tee off, My ball goes a little to the right of the fairway though could not see exactly where it landed. When we got there i could not find my ball. I decide to walk back to the tee. I tee off again this time its down the middle. My playing partners had carried on and were around the green. As i am approaching my second tee shot i see another ball which i saw earlier but assumed at that time it was from the tee coming the opposite way . No it wasn,t mine but it was one of my playing partners. He had played my ball.
So he incurs a two shot penalty. Now he says my third from the tee is in play because i had declared my first lost by going back to the tee and not announcing a provisional. I mean no wonder i couldn,t find my ball. Is he correct?

 

[Ethan]

I think he is correct. Once you put the second ball into play, the first one is lost, regardless of what actually happened to it.

Seems unfair, but the Rules have to have some degree of absolutism to make them work.

 

[SGC001]

Yes, if you've walked back to the tee and put another ball in play that's the one that counts.

 

[pbrown7582]

He is correct unfortunately do you sort his score out or did he N/R?

 

[NOTKNOWN]

Ok guys thank you for your replies.

A couple of things which i said in my post was incorrect. First one was that it was someone else after the game that suggested my provisional should be in play. The second thing is that i did say i was going to play a provisional. I actually called him back. He now played his ball again, I picked up my provisional and played from the spot where he played mine. It was the suggestion after the game that prompted me to write this post. It was our club championship and this was the out come.

I played my second round yesterday. At the halfway i described what had happened the previous day to the club pro and manager. They wasn,t quit sure they told me to carry on till they had checked out the rule.

The result was that by going back to the tee i had declared my ball as lost, once declared lost a provisional cannot be played. My third from the tee was now in play. So by replacing my ball to the spot where my playing partner had played my ball, I was in breach and disqualified

Thank you for your replies guys

 

[Twire]

The result was that by going back to the tee i had declared my ball as lost, once declared lost a provisional cannot be played. My third from the tee was now in play. So by replacing my ball to the spot where my playing partner had played my ball, I was in breach and disqualified

Thank you for your replies guys

The key is, once you start walking back to the tee, you have deemed your ball lost whether you have played another or not, so declaring a provisional is irelevent. How many times have you heard "Carry on looking guys, while I go back to the tee to play a provisional"? It's not a provisional, it's 3 off the tee.

 

[BoadieBroadus]

i had a similar incident with a variation. i was looking for a ball in slightly the wrong place, said the first one was lost and was going back to play 3 from the tee, but a few steps towards the tee i come across my first one. my opponent said that i had declared the first lost so couldn't then play my first ball. (i understand that this ruling is wrong as you cannot declare a ball lost - it only becomes lost after 5 mins or after you've played another?)

but at what point can i no longer treat the first one as in play - once i actually get to the tee and hit a second tee shot, or once i decide in my mind to go back to the tee? as it was matchplay i just gave up the hole and then proceeded to absolutely hammer the guy i was playing with. but since i found out his ruling was wrong, the correct ruling has always puzzled me.... any opinions?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Years ago I was playing in the Scottish Assitants Championship at Glenbervie. I was doing OK looking for a top six finish when I played the wrong ball at the 18th. Just after I had hit it the guys from the adjoining fairway yelled. Seemingly we had both hooked into the semi rough playing the same ball and number. After a parly I felt that I had played the wrong ball and the other guy agreed. [In those days you did not mark your ball like today.]
I went to retrieve his ball and found it inbedded into the far bank of a greenside bunker. I would have done well to get it out in two shots. My fourth [second] shot with a mid iron zipped in to 6 feet and I holed the putt for a gladly taken bogey.

 

[chrisd]

i had a similar incident with a variation. i was looking for a ball in slightly the wrong place, said the first one was lost and was going back to play 3 from the tee, but a few steps towards the tee i come across my first one. my opponent said that i had declared the first lost so couldn't then play my first ball. (i understand that this ruling is wrong as you cannot declare a ball lost - it only becomes lost after 5 mins or after you've played another?)

but at what point can i no longer treat the first one as in play - once i actually get to the tee and hit a second tee shot, or once i decide in my mind to go back to the tee? as it was matchplay i just gave up the hole and then proceeded to absolutely hammer the guy i was playing with. but since i found out his ruling was wrong, the correct ruling has always puzzled me.... any opinions?

You definitely cannot declare a ball lost. I would be sure in my mind that if the ball was found within 5 mins and you havn't played the ball off the tee then it would still be ok to play it ie the act of walking back doesn't count until you play the shot.

It isn't uncommon to hear people say that they will go back after a couple of minutes, but if you find it, shout and they will return.

 

[Twire]

The key is, once you start walking back to the tee, you have deemed your ball lost whether you have played another or not, so declaring a provisional is irelevent. How many times have you heard "Carry on looking guys, while I go back to the tee to play a provisional"? It's not a provisional, it's 3 off the tee.

Ignore that tosh....just looked it up.

Question:- A player plays from the teeing ground, searches briefly for his ball and then goes back and tees another ball. Before he plays the teed ball, and within the five-minute search period, the original ball is found. May the player abandon the teed ball and play the original ball?

Answer:- Yes. The teed ball was not in play since the player had not yet made a stroke at it – see Definition of “Ball in Play” – and the original ball was not lost – see Definition of “Lost Ball”.

 

[Matty]

I didn't think you could 'declare a ball lost'. A ball is 'lost' if it cannot be found within 5 minutes of searching. If you go back to the tee the ball is not in play until you hit it (or swing at it and miss).

The issue here for the OP is that he'd played from the teeing ground for a second time so even after the error was spotted it's his second ball in play. Be a good on for R&A to look into though as it seems harsh on the OP. To be penalised for stroke and distance and then DQ'd for dropping near the original ball.

 

[USER1999]

So it's ok to stick it on a tee peg, but the moment you hit it, it's in play.

 

[Foxholer]

There are two key points in this situation. 1. 5 minutes of looking - after which the ball is deemed lost. 2. Putting another ball in play - after which the first ball is irrelevant. There is no such thing as 'going back to play a provisional' - as it is 'going back to play another'.

If, however, your original ball is found within the 5 minutes and you haven't put another ball into play, you have a reasonable to get to it and identify it - which may mean that the overall time exceeds 5 minutes. So your fellow competitors should continue looking until the 5 minutes or you make a stroke at your replacement ball.

Had this exact situation twice (separately). Didn't help me when I lost a ball unexpectedly, but saved a fellow competitor 2 shots once when he thought returning to the tee meant declaring it lost (something you cannot do).

Hope that helps.

 

[Matty]

So it's ok to stick it on a tee peg, but the moment you hit it, it's in play.

That's certainly my understanding, well, hit it or make an airshot because you have attempted to play the ball so it's now 'in play'.

 

[BoadieBroadus]

thanks. fortunately in my case it made no difference as the match was won regardless. but it confirms my general opinion that there are some very odd versions of rules that people maintain are correct , and just tend to be myths handed down from the misinformed. can often leave a sour taste in the course of the match, so i have vowed to really get a handle on rules this season.

heard the old, "cleaning your ball on the surface of the green is a 2 shot penalty" this weekend. which is mince, though still not recommended. but if you play with someone who insists it is the correct ruling and keeps on about it then the rest of the round is a total pain.

 

[Foxholer]

heard the old, "cleaning your ball on the surface of the green is a 2 shot penalty" this weekend. which is mince, though still not recommended. but if you play with someone who insists it is the correct ruling and keeps on about it then the rest of the round is a total pain.

A bet of a tenner, or of a couple/round of drinks tends to quiet them down. Certainly after confirmation hat they are wrong!

 

[shagster]

also, you do not have to mark your ball, it is recommended you do, but once you lose sight of it, can you prove its yours? this could lead to some interseting debates in the rough with 2 identical balls!

shagster

 

[Whereditgo]

Back to the OP - pretty sure you can only play a provisional before moving forward to look for your ball.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Back to the OP - pretty sure you can only play a provisional before moving forward to look for your ball.

Correct - Rule 27-2a