Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
Your opponent gets a 4 iron embedded in the side of their skull?
Rules - Declaring a ball lost
- Thread starter NervousShankaholic
- Start date
Your opponent gets a 4 iron embedded in the side of their skull?
bobmac
Major Champion
Haven't you got any dodgy motors to sell geezer?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Alternatively declare a provisional but then rush up to play it again before your opponent has had a chance to find it (if he is that way inclined) . Under matchplay he can ask you to replay your shot but that doesnt change things with the lost ball. Your original will be discarded because you've played your 4th shot with your provisional already (albeit out of turn).
Wot he said.
Decision 27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball.
Who is Barry Rhodes by the way? Is he a golfer?
bobmac
Major Champion
Didn't know that.
Thought he would have to wait till it was his turn.
Daft rule that imo.
Ta
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Didn't know that.
Thought he would have to wait till it was his turn.
Daft rule that imo.
Ta
I agree that is a bit counter intuitive. One or two like that. Take this one for instance
27-2b/4 Provisional Ball Played from Beyond Where Original Ball Likely to Be But Not Beyond Where Original Ball Found
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-A...cisionId=8018568E-8596-4259-AD1E-A686722D4FC6
Talk about taking a literal interpretation of the Rules. How many people would guess that was the answer?
bobmac
Major Champion
A guy I know did something similar at Q school.
He needed a 4 at the last to get his card.
Hit his drive down the right semi.....fine
Couldn't find it.
Walked back, played another and took 6
As he walked back to his bag, he found his original ball 30 yards from the green.
Thank you cart path.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Would he have found it inside the 5 minutes?
I assume he looked, couldn't find, walked 300 back, hit another, walked another 300 and found the first - that has to take more than 5 minutes.
Doesn't it?
Ethan
Money List Winner
Although it is logical. Once you play a provisional ball believing it becomes the ball in play, it becomes the ball in play, and that can't retrospectively be cancelled.
bobmac
Major Champion
But should you be allowed to break a rule (play out of turn) on purpose to gain an advantage ?
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
No rules book to hand, but as that's done (and does) to gain a significant advantage would that not be in danger of being considered a serious breach of the rules?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
I think the issue is about the way the R&A have interpreted the concept of the stroke being "cancelled" when a ball is played out of turn.
To my mind that should mean the situation is put back to that which applied before the stroke was played, i.e the first ball is still in play unless not found within 5 mins or the player plays a stroke (in turn, or otherwise in accordance with the rules) with the provisional.
To my mind the R&A's interpretation in this case doesn't fully cancel the stroke. It allows the "cancelled" stroke to stand in realtion to putting the provisional ball in play but not in any other respect, which seems inconsistent.
What happens if you play out of turn and hole out and your opponent asks for the stroke to be replayed? Is it too late as the hole is completed? Can't find a decision on that.
chrisd
Major Champion
I am pretty certain that when the ball is in the cup then the hole, for you, is finished and then they cant ask you to replay it as you are deemed to have holed out
DaveM
Tour Winner
This is all getting to complicated for me. Note to self, keep it on the short stuff!
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
That's a matchplay situation (if they can ask you to replay it) and it's not deemed to have holed out, the stroke is cancelled (if I remember the term correctly). Again without reference to a rule book, if it is cancelled, and they find your ball in time I suspect you'd have to play it or declare it unplayable and proceed form there.
I'm still thinking in strokeplay deliberately playing out of turn to gain an advantage could well be a serious breach.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Rule 10-2 (c) covers this but it would appear it has to be because the players have agreed to play out turn, e.g. to give the second player a read on a putt.
c. Playing Out of Turn
If a competitor plays out of turn, there is no penalty and the ball is played as it lies. If, however, the Committee determines that competitors have agreed to play out of turn to give one of them an advantage, they are disqualified.
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
I'm thinking rule 1, it seems to me to be a serious breach of etiquette done to gain an advantage.
The point you raise indicates agreement results in the penalty if there's an advantage, I can't see how it would be equitable to just not ask or get a no and do it anyway and then get away with it.
If it isn't a serious breach I think it should be and that may be something to be revised another time. I would be very suprised if this wasn't considered a serious breach.
The point you raise indicates agreement results in the penalty if there's an advantage, I can't see how it would be equitable to just not ask or get a no and do it anyway and then get away with it.
If it isn't a serious breach I think it should be and that may be something to be revised another time. I would be very suprised if this wasn't considered a serious breach.
chrisd
Major Champion
The original question said that the provisional ball stopped 10in from the cup and almost every group of golfers let their playing companions "tap in" from close range out of turn, the only difference is that its a provisional and we all know that as soon as he plays it, it becomes the ball in play. We had the same question asked a few weeks ago in a slightly different way and the answer was - as soon as he holed out that was the hole finished, providing no one found his first ball before he holed out.
Ethan
Money List Winner
That is not what the decision describes. It describes someone who plays a provisional believing on good faith that their original ball is lost, only to find unexpectedly that it is not. The question of rushing up to tap in the provisional before anyone has a chance to find the original is a different question, but not actually a breach which carries a penalty either.
CliveW
Tour Winner
Even if the original ball is found within the five minute rule, it is up to the player, and only him, to identify it. He could quite easily say that he isn't sure that it is his and continue searching for the five minutes when the original ball would be deemed "lost" and then continue with the provisional.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
In matchplay I'm sure a putt holed out of turn can still be requested to be replayed.
I also think that the act of hitting the putt with the provisional, even though the stroke will be replayed, makes the provisional the ball in play.
I also think that the act of hitting the putt with the provisional, even though the stroke will be replayed, makes the provisional the ball in play.
