Rule query

[Fish]

I'm more than aware that you can only look for a ball for 5 minutes, but does that also include that player walking back to the tee after not finding his drive?

If that player who then is declaring a provisional whilst we are still looking for his ball takes his drive, is that ball then in play come what may?

or, if after he has taken that drive we then find his ball, if it's still within the 5 minutes, is his 1st ball in play.

I'm confident that the 5 minutes was well expired with looking and then him walking back to the tee a very long way, but as we have discussed on here before, unless you're physically timing it, its a contentious and somewhat confrontational point, as I found out yesterday!

The overall situation was this..

My PP took his drive, we were a 3-ball and we all looked for it for a good while to no avail, after abandoning the search he walked back to the tee and we waved the 2-ball who were waiting on the tee behind us through. As that 2-ball came up to me they stated that they had seen the ball land as they were on an adjacent green and it was indeed down a rabbit scrape/hole right against a tree out of sight. My PP was now already on the tee and taking another drive, and as far as I was concerned well over the 5 minutes allowed search time.

As he walked back after taking his drive I showed him his ball, he said 'great' I'll take a drop, I said 'you're well out of time, you only get 5 minutes' he said 'it's never been 5 minutes' and duly took a drop and carried on!!

After all the delay in doing this and the attitude slightly annoying me, I completely made a hash of that hole and the next one resulting in a NR when I was having an excellent round prior!

His score didn't matter in the medal comp but the situation ended up affecting me, which I need to address and not allow it to in the future and concentrate just on my own game, but, I'm confident I was right in that he should have played his provisional or 3 off the tee however it needs to be described.

Can I have some clarity please regarding the above scenario, especially in reference to the time in walking back and actually taking another drive.

Thank you.

 

[Imurg]

Did he hit the 2nd drive before you saw the first ball in the trees..?

 

[Three]

If you go forward to look for your ball, you cannot go back and play a provisional.
If you go back and hit another ball before the original is found , that is in play, irrelevant of the timing.
However if someone finds it within 5 minutes while you are walking back, the original is in play, irrelevant of whatever you've said.

 

[Three]

 

[Imurg]

If you go forward to look for your ball, you cannot go back and play a provisional.
If you go back and hit another ball before the original is found , that is in play, irrelevant of the timing.
However if someone finds it within 5 minutes while you are walking back, the original is in play, irrelevant of whatever you've said.

Unless you've already hit another one ....

 

[Three]

Unless you've already hit another one ....

What bit are you referring to?

 

[Fish]

Did he hit the 2nd drive before you saw the first ball in the trees..?

Yes, because it was the 2-ball that had walked up that we let through that showed it to me

 

[Fish]

If you go forward to look for your ball, you cannot go back and play a provisional.
If you go back and hit another ball before the original is found , that is in play, irrelevant of the timing.
However if someone finds it within 5 minutes while you are walking back, the original is in play, irrelevant of whatever you've said.

So even as he thought he was within 5 minutes after walking back and taking another drive, as the ball hadn't been found at that time, the 2nd drive/ball was now in play.

This is what I thought, if the ball was or wasn't found within the 5 minutes, as soon as he took that next drive that ball was in play and was not a provisional.

 

[Three]

1. So even as he thought he was within 5 minutes after walking back and taking another drive, as the ball hadn't been found at that time, the 2nd drive/ball was now in play.

2...This is what I thought, if the ball was or wasn't found within the 5 minutes, as soon as he took that next drive that ball was in play and was not a provisional.

I've added numbers just for clarity.

1. Yes, after going forward to look for the original, there is not an option to go back and play a provisional.

2. If the original is found within 5 minutes before he's hit again, the original is in play. If the original is found within 5 mins after he has played another one, the seconds ball is in play, 3 shots played.

 

[chrisd]

I've added numbers just for clarity.

1. Yes, after going forward to look for the original, there is not an option to go back and play a provisional.

2. If the original is found within 5 minutes before he's hit again, the original is in play. If the original is found within 5 mins after he has played another one, the seconds ball is in play, 3 shots played.

Probably, in this situation he couldn't go back and play a provisional but it is possible to in certain circumstances

 

[Three]

Probably, in this situation he couldn't go back and play a provisional but it is possible to in certain circumstances

After looking for the ball? What scenario am I missing?

 

[guest100718]

Probably, in this situation he couldn't go back and play a provisional but it is possible to in certain circumstances

i dont think so. You can go forward a short distance and then decide to return and play a provioanal ball, like 50 yds or so.

 

[rulefan]

An important detail re the second ball.

If the original was played from the teeing ground, and the second placed or dropped on the teeing ground, the second ball is not in play until the stroke is made.
If the second is not being played from the teeing ground, it is in play as soon as it is legitimately dropped or placed.



A player may not play a provisional if he goes forward to search.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-27,d27-2a-1.5

 

[chrisd]

After looking for the ball? What scenario am I missing?

I said in this situation he probably couldn't but there are situation where you can go back

 

[Three]

I said in this situation he probably couldn't but there are situation where you can go back

Yes, what are the situations?

 

[chrisd]

Yes, what are the situations?

If you leave your bag and walk back to a tee position you can walk forward and get another ball if needed. If you hit a tee shot and walk 50 yards (ish) and realise you may have hit to a bad area that wasn't obvious when you teed off, you can walk back and play a provisional.

 

[Three]

If you leave your bag and walk back to a tee position you can walk forward and get another ball if needed. If you hit a tee shot and walk 50 yards (ish) and realise you may have hit to a bad area that wasn't obvious when you teed off, you can walk back and play a provisional.

Yes I agree with both of those 👍👍

 

[Imurg]

What bit are you referring to?

If he walks back to the tee, plays his 2nd drive and then the original is found then he has to play the 2nd ball 3 off the tee - even if the ball is found within 5 minutes - he's put another ball into play.

 

[Three]

If he walks back to the tee, plays his 2nd drive and then the original is found then he has to play the 2nd ball 3 off the tee - even if the ball is found within 5 minutes - he's put another ball into play.

That's what I wrote. I can't see what you're querying.

 

[Imurg]

Missed the 2nd sentence of your first reply..😱👍