Rule for not removing attended flag

[Ian_Bristol]

If you are asked to attend the flag for a player who wanted to putt and their ball is off the green should you still remove the flag even though the ball stopped way short of the hole ( about 15ft short ) or should the flag be removed the instant the ball was struck regardless of knowing it was never going to reach, what if any is the penalty.

 

[duncan mackie]

It's good practice when attending the flag to remove it without regard for where the shot is going.

There's no penalty involved in the situation you outline - if you decided he had hit it too hard and a would benefit from leaving it in (and it hit the flagstick) you would be penalised.
If he was on the green and hit the flagstick then he would be penalised unless you deliberately left it in to get him a penalty...

 

[williamalex1]

It's good practice when attending the flag to remove it without regard for where the shot is going.

There's no penalty involved in the situation you outline - if you decided he had hit it too hard and a would benefit from leaving it in (and it hit the flagstick) you would be penalised.
If he was on the green and hit the flagstick then he would be penalised unless you deliberately left it in to get him a penalty...

Maybe a silly question , but can you refuse to tend the flag for a FC ??.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Maybe a silly question , but can you refuse to tend the flag for a FC ??.

Yes.

Decision 17-1/2 Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Declines to Attend Flagstick

Q. Does a player have any redress if he requests his opponent or a fellow-competitor to attend the flagstick for him and the opponent or fellow-competitor declines?

A. No

 

[Backache]

- if you decided he had hit it too hard and a would benefit from leaving it in (and it hit the flagstick) you would be penalised.
.

Are you sure about this? I thought if a player had authorised the attendance the player is responsible and is the one penalised.

 

[Backache]

Are you sure about this? I thought if a player had authorised the attendance the player is responsible and is the one penalised.

Just looked at the rulesand you're right both players are penalised.

 

[chrisd]

Are you sure about this? I thought if a player had authorised the attendance the player is responsible and is the one penalised.

It's the player who's putting who would be penalised when the flag is not removed in time, and the ball hits it, but Duncan is rightly pointing out that if you're attending the flag for someone and deliberately leave it in because he's hit it too hard and he would possibly benefit from hitting the flag then the person holding the flag is at fault and would be penalised

 

[duncan mackie]

Are you sure about this? I thought if a player had authorised the attendance the player is responsible and is the one penalised.

In the situation outlined here what rule are you proposing to penalise the player under?

 

[duncan mackie]

It's the player who's putting who would be penalised when the flag is not removed in time, and the ball hits it,

Not in the situation outlined Chris.

 

[Backache]

In the situation outlined here what rule are you proposing to penalise the player under?

17-3a
If the players ball hits the flagsick when attended.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I like the subtlety to attending the flag that tells us that attending the flag is not just holding it!

Let's say that your PP is on the fringe and you walk up to the flag and ask if he wants it attended. He tells you that he doesn't and wants it left in. So you takes a step away - but you stay close enough that you could still lean over a take it out. PP putts up and hits flag. He is penalised for hitting the flag as you are deemed to be attending the flag even although you are not holding it. If he had asked you to step away from the flag he would have been OK.

See Decision 17-1/1

 

[Spuddy]

The rules are quite clear. The hard bit is deducing whether or not the failure to remove the flagstick is deliberate or accidental.

For anyone who doesn't do it already, it's good practice to remove the flagstick from the hole and then rest it back in so that it doesn't get stuck when you try the remove it as the ball's rolling tears the hole. I thought most people did this already but recently I've had a few games where it doesn't happen.

 

[duncan mackie]

17-3a
If the players ball hits the flagsick when attended.

For some strange reason at some point be teen my carefully worded response to the original question and his morning I managed to get the weird notion that 17-3 would only apply to a ball played from the green; whilst last night I was clear on!

Apologies for any confusion.

The attendant deliberately leaving it in because he thought it would give a better outcome would be penalised under 1-2.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Sorry to hijack guys.... maybe another popular misconception here; can you have the flag attended when you're off the green?

I believe the idea of if that you're off the green you have two options....in or out, not attended?

 

[Region3]

Sorry to hijack guys.... maybe another popular misconception here; can you have the flag attended when you're off the green?

I believe the idea of if that you're off the green you have two options....in or out, not attended?

Yes you can.

Extreme example....

[video=youtube;aqKweki8Sxc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqKweki8Sxc[/video]

 

[Deleted member 18121]

thanks for that....I guess this is what you get for playing with/learning from people that don't know the rules.

 

[Region3]

thanks for that....I guess this is what you get for playing with/learning from people that don't know the rules.

A possible source of the myth is that some clubs during the winter ask players to either have the flag out or left alone, even when on the green, to try to prevent too much damage around the hole while the greens are soft.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you have a blind shot and cannot see the flag (and you could be 200yds away) - I think your caddie can attend the flag and hold it in the air to show you your line - I think. Not that I've ever done it or seen it done.

 

[duncan mackie]

If you have a blind shot and cannot see the flag (and you could be 200yds away) - I think your caddie can attend the flag and hold it in the air to show you your line - I think. Not that I've ever done it or seen it done.

don't worry thinking about it anymore....

" 17-1. Flagstick Attended, Removed or Held Up

Before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole"

 

[Fyldewhite]

Maybe a silly question , but can you refuse to tend the flag for a FC ??.

Yes.

Decision 17-1/2 Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Declines to Attend Flagstick

Q. Does a player have any redress if he requests his opponent or a fellow-competitor to attend the flagstick for him and the opponent or fellow-competitor declines?

A. No

Anyone else find this bizarre? So you could have a 60ft putt in a singles matchplay and your opponent could just say "Nah mate" when asked to attend? Would take some brass neck but I can believe some would stoop to it.....must have happened for there to be a decision.. Can anyone think of a valid reason for saying no, other than blatant gamesmanship? Is there any redress under "Spirit of the game" in the Etiquette section? i.e "demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times"?