Rule 19.1

[El Diablo]

I was always under the impression that if you NR in a medal you can still get a handicap reduction under rule 19.1 (Congu manual and article here seem to support this) - am I wrong ?

Played my away club at the weekend and NR'd one hole out of 18 where lost ball and heading for probably a double figure score - the stableford points were however 38 for the round and CSS was same as SS so I was expecting a 0.4 reduction in handicap (2 shots x 0.2 as hacker off 12).

Score come through to my home club today and 0.1 increase in handicap - is this correct, an error at home club or error at away club.

The away club have had new people running the handicaps and comps this year and I have highlighted errors a couple of times in competitions I have played in (re done them) and ignored the ones I have not played in.

As it happens I will now play 3 knockout matches in the next 5 days off 13 rather than 12 which might be to my advantage but seems wrong.

What should have happened - up 0.1 or cut of 0.4 ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I was always under the impression that if you NR in a medal you can still get a handicap reduction under rule 19.1 (Congu manual and article here seem to support this) - am I wrong ?

Played my away club at the weekend and NR'd one hole out of 18 where lost ball and heading for probably a double figure score - the stableford points were however 38 for the round and CSS was same as SS so I was expecting a 0.4 reduction in handicap (2 shots x 0.2 as hacker off 12).

Score come through to my home club today and 0.1 increase in handicap - is this correct, an error at home club or error at away club.

The away club have had new people running the handicaps and comps this year and I have highlighted errors a couple of times in competitions I have played in (re done them) and ignored the ones I have not played in.

As it happens I will now play 3 knockout matches in the next 5 days off 13 rather than 12 which might be to my advantage but seems wrong.

What should have happened - up 0.1 or cut of 0.4 ?

Previously asked here:

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/failure-to-hole-out.98998/

 

[Coffey]

Its not a DQ? Is it not just an NR?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its not a DQ? Is it not just an NR?

Current Rule 3.3c
If a competitor fails to hole out at any hole and does not correct his mistake before he makes a stroke
on the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, before he leaves the putting green, he is disqualified.

 

[patricks148]

i was under the impression you still got cut if it was a DQ or NR???

stops the unscrupulous from just handicap protecting

 

[Deleted member 16999]

i was under the impression you still got cut if it was a DQ or NR???

stops the unscrupulous from just handicap protecting

,

 

[Coffey]

Current Rule 3.3c
If a competitor fails to hole out at any hole and does not correct his mistake before he makes a stroke
on the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, before he leaves the putting green, he is disqualified.

Interesting...

If I have blobbed a hole in a medal round it just comes up with an NR on MasterScoreBoard

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Interesting...

If I have blobbed a hole in a medal round it just comes up with an NR on MasterScoreBoard

That’s I started the thread I linked to above, the results come out as an NR and not dq. Still can’t find out why.

 

[El Diablo]

Certainly Intelligent Golf and Handicapmaster/Masterscoreboard do not DQ and CONGU Manual still has same description for 19.1 as previously

19.1
Scores returned in Stroke Play Qualifying Competitions, whether or not all 18 holes have been completed, must be adjusted to the Nett Differential that would have applied if the competition had been a Stableford Qualifying Competition. No points shall be recorded on a hole where there is no score.

So returning to the original question should I get +0.1 or a cut due to 38pts - I see people cut when DQ'd regularly by the way (not signed score card, marker not signed it, handicap not included etc).

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Certainly Intelligent Golf and Handicapmaster/Masterscoreboard do not DQ and CONGU Manual still has same description for 19.1 as previously

19.1
Scores returned in Stroke Play Qualifying Competitions, whether or not all 18 holes have been completed, must be adjusted to the Nett Differential that would have applied if the competition had been a Stableford Qualifying Competition. No points shall be recorded on a hole where there is no score.

So returning to the original question should I get +0.1 or a cut due to 38pts - I see people cut when DQ'd regularly by the way.

You should get cut, but the difference is 19.1 is CONGU & 3.3c is a Rule of Golf. The dq should only be from the comp and the score used for handicap purposes.

 

[lex!]

You should have the stats on your HC record for that round as provided by the software vendor. Which one do you use there, is it IG? Any chance you could cut and paste them here? I think you should get the cut, exactly as you suggest, if it's recorded as 38 points and CSS=SSS.

 

[El Diablo]

This was an Away round, the record on Home club IG shows



Score from Away club system edited to show Stableford which was 38 so I think that part is correct


The Away club where I played this round has a recent track record of not operating the system properly or incorrectly setting up competitions (Masterscoreboard/Handicapmaster) as I have highlighted to them on a couple of occasions this year.

As my goal is handicap reduction and things being right I suppose I should raise with them first unless you think IG Home entry is incorrect.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All depends on how the Home club has entered the away score - normally it’s done via the download and then accepted but sometimes manually. If manually they may have just put it through as an NR with no Stableford adjustment - either way it’s certainly something to chase up because it should be a little cut

 

[lex!]

Nice looking card, good shooting! Yes, I would take it up your away club, explaining you would have expected a handicap cut with that score. IG will just download, in turn, whatever is posted by your away club to the CDH.

 

[patricks148]

This was an Away round, the record on Home club IG shows

View attachment 27482

Score from Away club system edited to show Stableford which was 38 so I think that part is correct
View attachment 27483

The Away club where I played this round has a recent track record of not operating the system properly or incorrectly setting up competitions (Masterscoreboard/Handicapmaster) as I have highlighted to them on a couple of occasions this year.

As my goal is handicap reduction and things being right I suppose I should raise with them first unless you think IG Home entry is incorrect.

lol, you are in the wrong thread..... this card should be in the bandits one

 

[rulefan]

See CONGU Appendix C

The following are examples where scores shall be corrected for handicap purposes following disqualification from the competition by the Committee in charge.

Nature of Breach Failure to hole out in stroke play
Action for Handicap Purposes Adjust score for hole at which offence occurred under Clause 19 (Stableford / Nett Double Bogey Adjustment)

Note 1 As a general principle, if a score would have been acceptable under Stableford conditions it should, whenever possible, be acceptable for handicap purposes in Stroke Play following Clause 19 adjustment for any hole where the player has either failed to hole out, or failed to produce a score that satisfied the Rules of Golf.

 

[duncan mackie]

Looking at the handicap entry they have entered you as a NR rather than a DQ - get it sorted

 

[El Diablo]

Well, several days later and multiple emails between the two clubs and myself and still not resolved as I believe it should be yet.

Away club says they processed and it shows as 19.1 reduction as 38 points in their system, home club not seen it come through like that but would investigate and put them in touch with each other.

I played a singles match off 12 (rather than system 13) on Friday, lost on 19th but would have won with additional shot but know morally correct action.

Played medal yesterday and prior to going out asked and was told to play it off 13, they would review on Monday and adjust as necessary.

Result now posted and closed based upon 13 which was a buffer but would have been +.1 off 12 so still not resolved in my eyes but they said they would review.

I have a Stableford tomorrow and knockout matches Wed/Fri, medal Saturday, stableford Sunday so given rate of progress not sure what I will play off handicap wise......

 

[Grant85]

Well, several days later and multiple emails between the two clubs and myself and still not resolved as I believe it should be yet.

Away club says they processed and it shows as 19.1 reduction as 38 points in their system, home club not seen it come through like that but would investigate and put them in touch with each other.

I played a singles match off 12 (rather than system 13) on Friday, lost on 19th but would have won with additional shot but know morally correct action.

Played medal yesterday and prior to going out asked and was told to play it off 13, they would review on Monday and adjust as necessary.

Result now posted and closed based upon 13 which was a buffer but would have been +.1 off 12 so still not resolved in my eyes but they said they would review.

I have a Stableford tomorrow and knockout matches Wed/Fri, medal Saturday, stableford Sunday so given rate of progress not sure what I will play off handicap wise......

That is pretty bad in terms of resolving something that should be fairly routine.

I've always been of the impression that you can definitely get cut, even if you don't hole out on all 18. i.e. with stableford points.

I've got buffer a few times with this and not gone up 0.1 despite picking up - but don't think I've ever been cut.

In terms of the DQ - yes the rules state you are DQd, but this is surely from the point of view of winning or placing in the competition - or progressing to the next stage if it's a qualifier. The handicapping element is separate.

 

[El Diablo]

They both agree it should have been a cut but not resolved in the system and updated as of today (Intelligent Golf home club, Handicapmaster away) - I am about to give up on it.

39 points in a stableford today, and I holed out on only blob hole so no question of full round of 18 scores, so that should hopefully come through from away club ok or will it !