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"Root Cause"

Tiger, am I correct in thinking that Ian Duncan Smith has just put forward thoughts similar to yours for consideration, following his fact-finding mission to Easterhouse in Glasgow?

I do think that we have to divorce the cure for the current wave of law breaking from the longer term problem that definitely exists.

The 500,000 job vacancies to be filled by 3,000,000 people does not square and we should all appreciate this.

We, as a country, gave away our industry just because our invisible earnings (finance) and oil could keep the country running and pay for the people no longer able to get employment because there was none to get - yes, I can talk about historically walking down the street and obtaining employment at any number of jobs - but those days are over.

I do think that the troublemakers have to be brought to heel NOW.. by any legal means ... to avoid copy cat behaviour and the BIG problem should be addressed, in Parliament, urgently.
 
Judge really punishes one of the rioters

Cave was found guilty of obstructing the police and was fined £60.

Mr Devas went on to ask Cave if he now felt ashamed about being one of the "hundreds of yobbos" arrested.

Addressing Cave at Nottingham Magistrates' Court, Judge Devas said: "Let me give you a piece of worldly advice. Get a life, sort yourself out.

"Don't you feel ashamed that you are now counted among the hundreds of yobbos arrested and now considered as scum by the public?"



Yeah I really bet he went home from the court and made a determined decision to change his life.

Or perhaps he went down the pub with his mates and celebrated sticking another two fingers up at British society.
 
I am fully aware of the disastrous implications of negative equity. Are you aware of the fact that the same problems are occuring in this country right now? Where people borrowed at 5 times salary to get on the property ladder and then the market crashed and now their houses are worth less than they paid for them?

You've taken umbridge to the fact I've criticised your point of view, fair enough. But your opinion does not correlate to fact. People make too many throwaway statements these days, with no evidence to substantiate their claims.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't understand negative equity, merely that it hadn't been mentioned. And yes, I'm certainly aware of the 5 times salary for mortgages and blame the lenders for that.

I've taken no offence from your statements Tiger, after all we are having a debate, aren't we? :)

You are right in that I don't have evidence to substantiate claims, but I do have life experience and can only draw on that. As far as the period of time during the 80's that I endured, I need no correlation to facts, evidence or stats, just the very fact that I was there at that time and lived through it.

Golfmmad.
 
I've taken no offence from your statements Tiger, after all we are having a debate, aren't we? :)
Click to expand...

This house believes... ;)

Here's to the Government getting control back of the country, suitable punishment for those involved in the riots and a proactive long term strategy for social reform

There has been one shining light through these dark days: the Riot Wombles. To me it encapsulates true British community spirit!

http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2011/08/10/3290277.htm
 
I am fully aware of the disastrous implications of negative equity. Are you aware of the fact that the same problems are occuring in this country right now? Where people borrowed at 5 times salary to get on the property ladder and then the market crashed and now their houses are worth less than they paid for them?

You've taken umbridge to the fact I've criticised your point of view, fair enough. But your opinion does not correlate to fact. People make too many throwaway statements these days, with no evidence to substantiate their claims.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't understand negative equity, merely that it hadn't been mentioned. And yes, I'm certainly aware of the 5 times salary for mortgages and blame the lenders for that.

I've taken no offence from your statements Tiger, after all we are having a debate, aren't we? :)

You are right in that I don't have evidence to substantiate claims, but I do have life experience and can only draw on that. As far as the period of time during the 80's that I endured, I need no correlation to facts, evidence or stats, just the very fact that I was there at that time and lived through it.

Golfmmad.
Click to expand...

As an aside matter,why do folk post their user name at the end of their post? :D

It's in your username unless you hadn't realised!!

Gets right on my tits that does.

And yes,I've had a *** of a day at graft!

Cheers,

Dodger. ;)
 
As an aside matter,why do folk post their user name at the end of their post? :D

It's in your username unless you hadn't realised!!

Gets right on my tits that does.

And yes,I've had a *** of a day at graft!

Cheers,

Dodger. ;)
Click to expand...

Dunno seems just as pointless to me.:D :D

chris661 ;)
 
As an aside matter,why do folk post their user name at the end of their post? :D

It's in your username unless you hadn't realised!!

Gets right on my tits that does.

And yes,I've had a *** of a day at graft!

Cheers,

Dodger. ;)
Click to expand...

Dunno seems just as pointless to me.:D :D

chris661 ;)
Click to expand...

:D :D
I do seem to recall discussing this subject over a pint of the black stuff at Ballyliffin?!
 
Dunno seems just as pointless to me.:D :D

chris661 ;)
Click to expand...

:D :D
I do seem to recall discussing this subject over a pint of the black stuff at Ballyliffin?!

[/QUOTE]

:cool:

I never touched a drop your honour :p
 
We, as a country, gave away our industry just because our invisible earnings (finance) and oil could keep the country running and pay for the people no longer able to get employment because there was none to get - yes, I can talk about historically walking down the street and obtaining employment at any number of jobs - but those days are over.
Click to expand...

Isn't that how a country develops?
Unless people want to be earning the kind of money, Chinese labour slaves in factories get paid, this has to happen.

Developing countries tend to use cheap low skilled labour to export lots of cheap goods (low margin, high turnover), to become richer.

Countries further down the development road, tend to use a higher skilled workforce, which produces less, but higher value goods. They can't compete on the low margin mass production, simply because labour costs are higher, so they work on producing higher quality items instead. If you look at what the UK does export, its higher value, low production items, such as satellites.

Industry has evolved, and a majority of people have evolved with it. What you have to do is make sure the people left behind can be given a chance to keep up, rather than just get pushed further behind. Of course this only works if people are willing, as has been alluded to previously, there are some groups who are not willing to do this.
 
I am fully aware of the disastrous implications of negative equity. Are you aware of the fact that the same problems are occuring in this country right now? Where people borrowed at 5 times salary to get on the property ladder and then the market crashed and now their houses are worth less than they paid for them?

You've taken umbridge to the fact I've criticised your point of view, fair enough. But your opinion does not correlate to fact. People make too many throwaway statements these days, with no evidence to substantiate their claims.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't understand negative equity, merely that it hadn't been mentioned. And yes, I'm certainly aware of the 5 times salary for mortgages and blame the lenders for that.

I've taken no offence from your statements Tiger, after all we are having a debate, aren't we? :)

You are right in that I don't have evidence to substantiate claims, but I do have life experience and can only draw on that. As far as the period of time during the 80's that I endured, I need no correlation to facts, evidence or stats, just the very fact that I was there at that time and lived through it.

Golfmmad.
Click to expand...

As an aside matter,why do folk post their user name at the end of their post? :D

It's in your username unless you hadn't realised!!

Gets right on my tits that does.

And yes,I've had a *** of a day at graft!

Cheers,

Dodger. ;)
Click to expand...

OK Dodger, point taken, don't like the idea of pi**ing people off on the forum.

But, I'll remember, when I want to wind you up, to include it. :D

Hope you have a better day tomorrow - I'm playing golf. :cool:

Gol............ oops :o
 
Very good Tiger, there's always some good to come out of adversity.
I belong to another forum and somebody posted a funny one to bring a bit of cheer to the events. It was of a Pigeon calmly hopping into a store and grabbing what looked like a bag of crisps, and trotting back out again.

........ :D :D
 
We, as a country, gave away our industry just because our invisible earnings (finance) and oil could keep the country running and pay for the people no longer able to get employment because there was none to get - yes, I can talk about historically walking down the street and obtaining employment at any number of jobs - but those days are over.
Click to expand...

Isn't that how a country develops?
Unless people want to be earning the kind of money, Chinese labour slaves in factories get paid, this has to happen.

Developing countries tend to use cheap low skilled labour to export lots of cheap goods (low margin, high turnover), to become richer.

Countries further down the development road, tend to use a higher skilled workforce, which produces less, but higher value goods. They can't compete on the low margin mass production, simply because labour costs are higher, so they work on producing higher quality items instead. If you look at what the UK does export, its higher value, low production items, such as satellites.

Industry has evolved, and a majority of people have evolved with it. What you have to do is make sure the people left behind can be given a chance to keep up, rather than just get pushed further behind. Of course this only works if people are willing, as has been alluded to previously, there are some groups who are not willing to do this.
Click to expand...

Surefire, you are indeed correct in my opinion BUT because we can not all be bankers/ investment mangers etc, people who are less academically qualifyed have to be catered for by the people making 'loads of lolly'- Now this has not happened and therein lies the problem .. Rich get richer and the poor? They don't want to work, they are bone idle etc!!
The fact that there is 500,000 job vacancies and SEVEN times that being directed into the jobs does not make sense IMHO.

That does not excuse law breaking, by the way.
 
Surefire, you are indeed correct in my opinion BUT because we can not all be bankers/ investment mangers etc, people who are less academically qualifyed have to be catered for by the people making 'loads of lolly'- Now this has not happened and therein lies the problem .. Rich get richer and the poor? They don't want to work, they are bone idle etc!!
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the only job people can get in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales is within the banking sector???

Blimey!!!

I never knew that.

Now, I wonder who installed my kitchen - and my bathroom - and my boiler - and fixes my car - and drives the buses and the trains - and repairs the roads - etc, etc, etc.

Fella, there are untold jobs out there for people of differing intellects and abilities.

It depends how badly you want a job.
 
Surefire, you are indeed correct in my opinion BUT because we can not all be bankers/ investment mangers etc, people who are less academically qualifyed have to be catered for by the people making 'loads of lolly'- Now this has not happened and therein lies the problem .. Rich get richer and the poor? They don't want to work, they are bone idle etc!!
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the only job people can get in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales is within the banking sector???

Blimey!!!

I never knew that.

Now, I wonder who installed my kitchen - and my bathroom - and my boiler - and fixes my car - and drives the buses and the trains - and repairs the roads - etc, etc, etc.

Fella, there are untold jobs out there for people of differing intellects and abilities.

It depends how badly you want a job.
Click to expand...

Yes but there are only half a million jobs and 3.5 million out of work. How do you square that circle?
 
Yes but there are only half a million jobs and 3.5 million out of work. How do you square that circle?
Click to expand...

Do what a lot of people do and start your own window cleaning business, washing cars, clean wheelie bins, paper rounds etc. Those 500000 jobs are only those which qualify for minimum wage I'd bet., plenty more jobs out there if you can swallow the silly pride.
 
Surefire, you are indeed correct in my opinion BUT because we can not all be bankers/ investment mangers etc, people who are less academically qualifyed have to be catered for by the people making 'loads of lolly'- Now this has not happened and therein lies the problem .. Rich get richer and the poor? They don't want to work, they are bone idle etc!!
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the only job people can get in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales is within the banking sector???

Blimey!!!

I never knew that.

Now, I wonder who installed my kitchen - and my bathroom - and my boiler - and fixes my car - and drives the buses and the trains - and repairs the roads - etc, etc, etc.

Fella, there are untold jobs out there for people of differing intellects and abilities.

It depends how badly you want a job.
Click to expand...

Yes but there are only half a million jobs and 3.5 million out of work. How do you square that circle?
Click to expand...

Jobshare? :rolleyes:
 
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