Roll Back Discussion

[Backache]

The reason people like Stagner and Crossfield are being disingenuous is because they are paid ambassadors of equipment manufacturers.

All of them ignore the real issues that the USGA and The R&A seek to address (and the data from the mid-90s through to 2003/4, which clearly shows the effect of big drivers and the modern ball) and run with the false narrative that more distance is golf's panacea - amateurs need more of it to enjoy the game or they'll give it up, people won't watch pros unless they have more distance, etc. - it's all a marketing fantasy invented to upsell equipment to existing players. They even seem to claim people won't take up the sport unless they see people hitting it huge distances.

What I heard of the recent podcast seemed a little silly, as opposed to the Mackenzie interview which was more considered whether you agree with them or not.

However I don't think they hold these views because they are paid ambassadors. Stagner has only recently become a Titleist ambassador and having listened to the podcast from time to time has held these views for a long time well before he was doing anything for any manufacturer.
Crossfield quite regularly states that regularly upgrading your equipment is a pointless exercise.

Personally I suspect without bifurcation manufacturers will be more than happy with the outcome, a large number of balls in players possession to become redundant and need replacing, whats not to like?

 

[jim8flog]

On the otherside, the R&A statement is very poor. As with WHS, no effort has been put in to communicating thorougly their basis for the change.

Err whatt!!!

I agree with post #1028

If you follow the various links on this page

Decision to revise golf ball testing conditions beginning in 2028

Revised test conditions to address consistent increases in hitting distance, golf’s sustainability.

www.randa.org

You can find the original proposal, ball manufacturers responses etc

It was made very public just a case of being bothered to read it all.

The R&A invited comments

golf distance debate - your opinions wanted!

Hi all as several threads on here have proved, the distance golfers, especially the pros, are hitting it these days, is a hot topic in the game. In a bid to capture as many views as possible on the subject The R&A and the USGA have launched the “Distance Insights in golf: Share Your...

forums.golfmonthly.com

 

[harpo_72]

Changing the balls is doable because we tend to lose them, but if they try and make drivers smaller or worse then I'll probably just keep mine and stop playing competitions if need be. I fail to see why the weekend golfer has to be punished twice over just because Bryson can hit a ball 400 yards.

The driver has been through many changes, particularly materials but the face regulation is one of the latter introductions. I think a few of us went through it … to be honest it passed me by as I was trying to build a career. But everyone seems to have sucked it up and got on with it.
I don’t think driver head size will make a distance impact for the pros .. so I cannot see it being introduced or pushed towards the amateur.
So I think you are quite safe.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah, this is why I think the whole thing is stupid. It won't affect the pro game much at all in my opinion. If they'd have just brought more out of bounds areas into play in the pro events they'd have needed to be more selective about where they hit. Now they'll probably just add swing speed, decrease loft and continue annihilating the ball.

Just ban ball spotters !
Make them find their own.
So bombing it over dog legs most of the big hitters don’t even look where it’s gone.
they know someone is going to find it for them.

 

[D-S]

The driver has been through many changes, particularly materials but the face regulation is one of the latter introductions. I think a few of us went through it … to be honest it passed me by as I was trying to build a career. But everyone seems to have sucked it up and got on with it.
I don’t think driver head size will make a distance impact for the pros .. so I cannot see it being introduced or pushed towards the amateur.
So I think you are quite safe.

Eddie Pepperell mentioned that it was recommended by the DPWT reps in discussions with the R&A re rollback.

 

[harpo_72]

Eddie Pepperell mentioned that it was recommended by the DPWT reps in discussions with the R&A re rollback.

As in they should go smaller?
It might reduce shaft length from 44.5-46” down to 42-44” but then a 3 wood needs to be limited.. so it could impact all the fairway woods as well.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Has anybody come up with a valid justification for implementing the change yet? I listened to Mike Wahn yesterday and a lot of words came out, but he said nothing - admitting the players will recover from the distance losses and then distance gains will still advance just as they always have.
If rollback is the solution, it needs to be called hold back, as the governing bodies will have to continually update the regs to stop the ball travelling beyond a set distance - otherwise, the reasons for this rollback and totally undermined.

I watched the late news on ITV last night, they covered the topic - the tone of the piece was to almost ridicule the game for making the changes - which quite frankly, is exactly what people should be doing.

 

[D-S]

As in they should go smaller?
It might reduce shaft length from 44.5-46” down to 42-44” but then a 3 wood needs to be limited.. so it could impact all the fairway woods as well.

Sorry can’t remember the method of change but they were keen on club change - it’s in the latest episode of The Chipping Forecast podcast.

 

[BiMGuy]

They need to ban long putters and properly ban anchoring before they start tinkering with equipment.

 

[clubchamp98]

Has anybody come up with a valid justification for implementing the change yet? I listened to Mike Wahn yesterday and a lot of words came out, but he said nothing - admitting the players will recover from the distance losses and then distance gains will still advance just as they always have.
If rollback is the solution, it needs to be called hold back, as the governing bodies will have to continually update the regs to stop the ball travelling beyond a set distance - otherwise, the reasons for this rollback and totally undermined.

I watched the late news on ITV last night, they covered the topic - the tone of the piece was to almost ridicule the game for making the changes - which quite frankly, is exactly what people should be doing.

Came across to me in the posted document that it’s all about the pros.

small caveat at the end was ams will lose 4 yds .

Hammer and nut imo.

But to make a ball just for pros there is no money in that for OEMs as they give them to them for free.
We all know we don’t play the same game as them.

 

[harpo_72]

They need to ban long putters and properly ban anchoring before they start tinkering with equipment.

And left handed clubs

 

[BiMGuy]

And left handed clubs

Goes without saying

 

[Wabinez]

 

[Backsticks]

Has anybody come up with a valid justification for implementing the change yet? I

Yes. The game is best, fairest, and most testing of the range of golf skills, with distances that are slightly shorter, and certainly no longer, than they are today. Longer hitting distances, across all ranges of golfers due to equipment development have harmed rather than improved the game. Hence, this rule maintains golf as the game we know and love, and is a dam against possible future deterioration.

 

[BiMGuy]

Yes. The game is best, fairest, and most testing of the range of golf skills, with distances that are slightly shorter, and certainly no longer, than they are today. Longer hitting distances, across all ranges of golfers due to equipment development have harmed rather than improved the game. Hence, this rule maintains golf as the game we know and love, and is a dam against possible future deterioration.

In what way has the game been harmed for handicap golfers?

 

[harpo_72]

That was good, totally get where he is coming from having played balatas. I used 100 compression to kill spin.
I had a hiatus in my golf and came back with the a sleeve of pro vs and it was amazingly different, my driver needed changing from the 8 degrees and where I hit it needed updating.

 

[D-S]

Yes. The game is best, fairest, and most testing of the range of golf skills, with distances that are slightly shorter, and certainly no longer, than they are today. Longer hitting distances, across all ranges of golfers due to equipment development have harmed rather than improved the game. Hence, this rule maintains golf as the game we know and love, and is a dam against possible future deterioration.

Surely the existing speed limit on the ball was put in as a ‘dam against possible future deterioration’.

 

[D-S]

Just seen Cristo Lamprecht hit a 418 yard drive down 18 at Leopard Creek, if he had only hit it 403 then he would have had to hit a firm wedge not the soft one he actually hit into a 580 yard par 5.
This rollback is said to have a negligible impact on ‘normal’ amateurs, I think the same can be said for Pros too (even though Lamprecht is an amateur).

 

[jim8flog]

What 15 yards does on a lot of courses played by pros is it puts a lot of bunkers in to play for the tee shot, So instead of losing 15 yards they might well lose a lot more as they intentionally lay up short of them.

There still will a few that can make the carry with their best shots though.

 

[D-S]

What 15 yards does on a lot of courses played by pros is it puts a lot of bunkers in to play for the tee shot, So instead of losing 15 yards they might well lose a lot more as they intentionally lay up short of them.

There still will a few that can make the carry with their best shots though.

By the same token they can now hit at bunkers that previously they laid up short of as they would have reached, so it is swings and roundabouts.

10 to 15 yards moves the average approach (175 yards) from a soft 8 to a fuller one, hardly game changing.