Right leg position at the top of the backswing

[One Planer]

When it comes to straightening or allowing the right leg to lose flex in the backswing, are there different schools of thought?

Here's an old picture of some of the games greatest ever players:

Quite a few majors won with those swings :thup:

j I w if you look at more modern swings, difference in knee flex in the right knee is noticeable:

Luke Donald:

Adam Scott:

Justin Rose:

Martin Kaymer:

Charles Schwartzel:

Are there different schools of thought/teaching when it comes to allowing the leg to lose flex/straighten or retaining it's flex?

Is one way considered more correct than the other?

Is there reasons why you shouldn't allow the trail leg to lose its flex in the backswing?

Or

Is the reverse true and you should allow your trail knee to lose flex in the back swing?

I'd like to point out I'm not after help with this, I just thought it an interesting topic of conversation.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[virtuocity]

You thinking about Stack and Tilt again?

 

[tsped83]

Is it even possible to consciously know what your right leg is doing in the swing? For me it's instinctive and I couldn't tell you what happens with my leg. I'd also argue a lot of those legs looks very similar to me, both new and old.

 

[chellie]

Is it even possible to consciously know what your right leg is doing in the swing? For me it's instinctive and I couldn't tell you what happens with my leg. I'd also argue a lot of those legs looks very similar to me, both new and old.

I was just going to say that. Also, wasn't there a thread like this last year.

 

[Region3]

This is just my opinion, not (knowingly) fact.

I think for most handicap golfers, the right leg straightening is a symptom of not being able to turn the shoulders more than the hips. The only way to get a full shoulder turn for them is to turn the hips more than necessary, which almost forces the right knee to lose flex.

I don't think in itself the right knee straightening is the problem, but what causes it to do so.

This is something I'm trying to 'fix', so quite often I will watch a pro swing just watching their right leg, and it's surprising to me how many have exactly the same angle in their right knee at the top of the backswing that they did at address.

I've also noticed that when I get it right I can really feel the muscle on the inside of my right thigh being worked, and to me at least, it feels more powerful.

 

[SocketRocket]

Straightening the right leg in the backswing restricts weight shift and prevents turning behind the ball, it creates a tendency to lift up or early extend. It also promotes a reverse pivot and potential slicing.

S@T does allow the right leg to straighten but keeps the weight forward in the downswing and pushes the hips forward to shallow out the swing.

IMO most of those images are not really straightening the rear leg a great deal, it looks like it due to the forward knee turning inwards.

 

[JustOne]

The swing is like a puzzle, all the pieces need to fit to have a great swing, just looking at one part doesn't mean it will work with the other pieces you have.

IF you allow the right leg to lose some flex then you need the other pieces to work with that move, IF you restrict your leg movement then you need a whole different set of pieces.

IMO there is no problem losing some flex (some tour golfers straighten it completely), but it depends what is going on with your own swing and what you want to achieve.

Bad backs caused by restricting hip turn has plagued millions and millions of golfers. Understanding the mechanics of what a human body can or can't do is paramount. Get someone to hold your hips solidly so they can't move and see how far you can turn your shoulders,....

Those pictures are slightly misleading and inconclusive both FOR and AGAINST losing flex as you need to know what the UPPER body is doing in relation to the legs (see above about 'pieces').

 

[JustOne]

Consider this...... should the club be swung back ON THE HANDS/TOE LINE.....?

or outside it?

or inside it?

These guys make millions,... now ask yourself your question again :thup:

 

[Marc Cools]

I think the swing is a system with not exact positions but a range of positions within certain boundaries. Going more to a bouderie gives you certain advantages and disadvantages which has to be compensated by going with other parts to other boundaries. Over time the common thoughts about those boundaries evolves due to techniques like filming, Track Man, pressure plates and so on.

My pro wants me to have a little bent in the R leg. In the backswing I have to rotate around the R leg and adding pressure into the ground. It gives a lot of tension that I can use to hit it far. My general swing thought is not a circle movement around my spine but an ellipse around my two legs. It helps me to load my R side and to transfer the weight to the L side.
I have the tendency to take the club on the inside not allowing to rotate my shoulders very well. So I try to take the club outside which helps me to rotate the shoulders better. For me that works. For somebody else, who knows? Thats the pro's job who understands those boundaries very well.

 

[JustOne]

I think the swing is a system with not exact positions but a range of positions within certain boundaries. Going more to a bouderie gives you certain advantages and disadvantages which has to be compensated by going with other parts to other boundaries. Over time the common thoughts about those boundaries evolves due to techniques like filming, Track Man, pressure plates and so on.

That sounds about right, no different than balancing a childs playground see-saw.... move something left and something has to move right to balance it. Allow your right knee to lose a little flex (straighten a bit) and something else has to balance that.

Problem is that 99.9% of golfers aren't balanced in the first place as they are waaaaaaay outside the boundaries you describe.

 

[One Planer]

Some great replies so far :thup:

While reading a little about in online and came across this:


Source: Peter Kostis

In your backswing especially. Once you get your flex at address, you want to feel like your right knee cap doesn't move much as you take the club back. If you really let it straighten, and let this leg lock, sometimes all you're gonna do is make this over the top move. So try to maintain some flex in your knees as you go back.

Not sure what to make of that.

 

[Foxholer]

Remember that there's a difference between straightening the back leg (fine if that's what you do) and locking it (not a good thing to do). It's impossible to tell from those pics whether the back leg is locked or simply straight. And it's also impossible to tell just exactly in the swing the pic is taken. Many will straighten their back leg with the 'bump' of the hips that is the first part of the downswing!

There's plenty of other things - as well as the straight right leg - that are not 'classic' about Doug Sanders's swing! His right leg is pretty straight throughout the entire backswing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny1BEmAsvD8

 

[garyinderry]

Remember that there's a difference between straightening the back leg (fine if that's what you do) and locking it (not a good thing to do). It's impossible to tell from those pics whether the back leg is locked or simply straight. And it's also impossible to tell just exactly in the swing the pic is taken. Many will straighten their back leg with the 'bump' of the hips that is the first part of the downswing!

There's plenty of other things - as well as the straight right leg - that are not 'classic' about Doug Sanders's swing! His right leg is pretty straight throughout the entire backswing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny1BEmAsvD8

Loving that swing. All over swingers should give that a try as the wide stance should naturally limit hip movement and as long as you dont let the left arm break you won't over swing.

 

[JustOne]

Loving that swing. All over swingers should give that a try as the wide stance should naturally limit hip movement and as long as you dont let the left arm break you won't over swing.

WHY would you want to do that??

Bad backs caused by restricting hip turn has plagued millions and millions of golfers. Understanding the mechanics of what a human body can or can't do is paramount. Get someone to hold your hips solidly so they can't move and see how far you can turn your shoulders,....

And for what it's worth (from Doug Sanders's Wikipedia....)

He is remembered for an exceptionally short, flat golf swing—a consequence, it appears, of a painful neck condition that radically restricted his movements.

:mmm:


a bit more info from Google...
"Sanders suffered from a condition called torticollis - "a neck condition where my head tilted one way and my chin went the other" - that caused intense pain. He was scheduled for an operation, but the doctor told him the operation wasn't guaranteed to rid him of the pain"

So if you happen to have torticollis

 

[garyinderry]

Lot of people who overswing and get across the line do just that. left arm breaks and they have the club head pointing way out to right field.

It would be a good drill to help them and could adjust it as they manage to lessen the across the line problem and overswing.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ensuring you have some secondary spine tilt will encourage you to keep some knee flex. It makes it harder to straighten the leg.

 

[Foxholer]

Ensuring you have some secondary spine tilt will encourage you to keep some knee flex. It makes it harder to straighten the leg.

Notwithstanding the importance of the initial setup and the back-swing, it has to be remembered that the entire purpose is to optimise impact - both from a power and consistency point of view. If having a straight back leg (or bowed wrist, or flat, steep or twirly swing) does that, then it's immaterial how that is achieved for the particular player!

Palmer was, arguably, the best player of his time (until Nicklaus) but had all sorts of quirks including being very hunched when playing irons (which he acknowledged was a 'weak' part of his game). You only need to look at how much Jeev Milkha Singh has won to see you don't need anywhere near a perfect swing to compete! And Eamon Darcy and Jim Furyk are further demo of that!

 

[SocketRocket]

Notwithstanding the importance of the initial setup and the back-swing, it has to be remembered that the entire purpose is to optimise impact - both from a power and consistency point of view. If having a straight back leg (or bowed wrist, or flat, steep or twirly swing) does that, then it's immaterial how that is achieved for the particular player!

Palmer was, arguably, the best player of his time (until Nicklaus) but had all sorts of quirks including being very hunched when playing irons (which he acknowledged was a 'weak' part of his game). You only need to look at how much Jeev Milkha Singh has won to see you don't need anywhere near a perfect swing to compete! And Eamon Darcy and Jim Furyk are further demo of that!

What world class players can do and get away with is not a lot of help to the average Joe. You would probably run a mile from a coach that wanted you to emanate the swings you mentioned above. IMO straightening the back leg in the backswing restricts weight shift and promotes a reverse pivot thus reducing power and consistency. I admit lots of people do it, that's why the golfing world has so many slicers.

A flexed and stable back leg allows you to stay grounded and stable encouraging retained angles and good leverage.

 

[Foxholer]

What world class players can do and get away with is not a lot of help to the average Joe.

That's true, but a bit of a cop-out!

The reasoning is surely the same - And I believe that is what Gareth was asking in the OP! Doesn't that mean that either the 'world class players' have changed to have those straight back legs - so why was the change made? Or they always did it, so it wasn't as bad as made out to be as they progressed from juniors up to world class players!

I admit lots of people do it, that's why the golfing world has so many slicers who probably are consistent with their slice.

I'd suggest that it's more often a sequencing issue - starting the downswing with the arms/hands!

A flexed and stable back leg allows you to stay grounded and stable encouraging retained angles and good leverage.

That's just gobbledeegook!

Surely a straightened, but not locked (ie flexed, even if not bent), back leg is stable. And subsequent bending of it can provide the 'ground up' impetus that's desirable.

Btw. For those with a tendency to sway, restricting weight shift (while ensuring a turn/coil is performed) can be a good thing, providing the upper body doesn't persist on swaying - in either direction!

Anyway, I have no obsession one way or the other - except against those who are obsessed with one way or the other! To me, it's what's right for the particular player and their circumstances/capabilities!

Oh and Phil Mickelson is another who straightens his back leg! http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/features/phil_mickelson_swing_sequence.html

On that note, I'm out!

 

[SocketRocket]

That's true, but a bit of a cop-out!

The reasoning is surely the same - And I believe that is what Gareth was asking in the OP! Doesn't that mean that either the 'world class players' have changed to have those straight back legs - so why was the change made? Or they always did it, so it wasn't as bad as made out to be as they progressed from juniors up to world class players!



I'd suggest that it's more often a sequencing issue - starting the downswing with the arms/hands!



That's just gobbledeegook!

Surely a straightened, but not locked (ie flexed, even if not bent), back leg is stable. And subsequent bending of it can provide the 'ground up' impetus that's desirable.

Btw. For those with a tendency to sway, restricting weight shift (while ensuring a turn/coil is performed) can be a good thing, providing the upper body doesn't persist on swaying - in either direction!

Anyway, I have no obsession one way or the other - except against those who are obsessed with one way or the other! To me, it's what's right for the particular player and their circumstances/capabilities!

Oh and Phil Mickelson is another who straightens his back leg! http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/features/phil_mickelson_swing_sequence.html

On that note, I'm out!

Your post is just confusing and contradictory! Most world class players don't straighten out their back legs.

If you think Phil is straighetning his back leg in the backswing then I suggest a visit to Specsavers

[video=youtube;ISYYkjiwzDk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISYYkjiwzDk[/video]