Returning a Ball After Conceding a Putt

mikejohnchapman

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I'm sure I have seen an interpretation covering this but I can't find it!

In matchplay, a player putts and misses. Their opponent concedes the next putt and returns the ball by hitting it back to them with their putter. They then go on to take their putt. The returned ball did not go on the line of the subsequent putt. Is there a penalty for the opponent?
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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Sure this been discussed here before though some time ago, and IIRC the answer was that it was ok to roll a ball picked up as long as it was not obviously testing the speed of the green or being rolled on a line consistent with a putt the player rolling the ball still has to play.
 

Steven Rules

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No penalty.

Clarification 13.1e/1 permits: A player concedes their opponent's next putt and hits the ball away on the same line of play as the player may subsequently use but does not do so deliberately to learn information about the putting green.

Rule 5.5a permits: Hitting a ball back to a practice area or to another player, when done solely as a courtesy.
 

salfordlad

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If you do the R&A quizzes you will bump into this one - it has been there forever - consistent with the clarification that Steven identifies.
 

Colin L

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If you do the R&A quizzes you will bump into this one - it has been there forever.........

... and is eminently sensible. I always knock an opponent's ball over to them if I'm close enough when conceding a putt. I can be generous with my concessions but very mean about bending down to pick someone else's ball up.
 

rulefan

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... and is eminently sensible. I always knock an opponent's ball over to them if I'm close enough when conceding a putt. I can be generous with my concessions but very mean about bending down to pick someone else's ball up.
Bending down isn't the problem though.
 

Beezerk

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No penalty.

Clarification 13.1e/1 permits: A player concedes their opponent's next putt and hits the ball away on the same line of play as the player may subsequently use but does not do so deliberately to learn information about the putting green.

Rule 5.5a permits: Hitting a ball back to a practice area or to another player, when done solely as a courtesy.

Does that also apply in pairs comps?
I recall a few years ago we played with a couple of fellas in a comp a few years ago, they would hit each others ball back to the other player on most greens (player A would hit the ball to player B and vice versa). Me and my mate were convinced they were testing the greens as they seemed to have some sort of routine worked out.
 
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Steven Rules

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I assume you mean four-ball.

There is no additional information in the Rules or Clarifications in this specific regard for four-ball. There are a couple of general clarifications that say a partner can't commit a breach to help a player but probably not specifically relevant here.

But I refer you back to a key element of Clarification 13.1e/1: ".....does not do so deliberately to learn information about the putting green." This applies equally in four-ball. It is all about purpose or intent. What was the intent of their 'routine '?

If I had concerns about their 'routine' I would have no hesitation about politely telling them so.
 

Beezerk

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I assume you mean four-ball.

There is no additional information in the Rules or Clarifications in this specific regard for four-ball. There are a couple of general clarifications that say a partner can't commit a breach to help a player but probably not specifically relevant here.

But I refer you back to a key element of Clarification 13.1e/1: ".....does not do so deliberately to learn information about the putting green." This applies equally in four-ball. It is all about purpose or intent. What was the intent of their 'routine '?

If I had concerns about their 'routine' I would have no hesitation about politely telling them so.

Sorry it was early in the morning and I put the wrong format down. It was a pairs comp, I can’t remember the format but it wasn’t matchplay.
Like I said, they would regularly hit each others balls back from right across the green, sometimes picking it up, cleaning it, moving around the green and then hitting it back. It just felt wrong at the time, they also shouted out a few incorrect scores (didn’t count penalties in hazards) which made me and my pp think they were up to something.
 

chrisd

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Sorry it was early in the morning and I put the wrong format down. It was a pairs comp, I can’t remember the format but it wasn’t matchplay.
Like I said, they would regularly hit each others balls back from right across the green, sometimes picking it up, cleaning it, moving around the green and then hitting it back. It just felt wrong at the time, they also shouted out a few incorrect scores (didn’t count penalties in hazards) which made me and my pp think they were up to something.

I'd say, given your explanation, that they were almost definitely contravening rule 13.1e/1
 
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