relief when ball lies close to a bunker

[larsremvig]

There now seems to be two discussions running at the same time:
1. The situation giving relief - which I am interested in!
2. The magnitude of the relief.
Re 1: No, "rulefan", there was no water under or around the ball. We probably talk about two different incidents. And no, Woody69, his left foot was not in casual water.
Obviously none of you have seen the incident and consequently further discussion seems useless.
Thank you for your contributions.
Lars.

 

[rulefan]

Re 1: No, "rulefan", there was no water under or around the ball. We probably talk about two different incidents.

It was not water near the ball but water in the bunker affecting his stance.

 

[woody69]

It's worth noting Woody that, whilst the local rule permits the club to define the amount of relief allowed, CONGU doesn't recognise anything over six inches for qualifying competitions. We fell foul of this one last year so have corrected for the current preferred lies period.

See Clause 15.3, page 26 of the current CONGU manual: http://www.englandgolf.org/e-brochure/index.html

When you say, "fell foul of", what do you mean?

Our club has "within one club length" as their amount of relief, so I've sent this info off to the comp secretary to see if he is aware about this as we play qualifying comps with the one club length, not 6 inches.

 

[Three]

Exactly my point. The game is easier for the best players in the world than the average player.

Rubbish.

 

[Colin L]

When you say, "fell foul of", what do you mean?

Our club has "within one club length" as their amount of relief, so I've sent this info off to the comp secretary to see if he is aware about this as we play qualifying comps with the one club length, not 6 inches.

As stated, CONGU requires that the distance permitted for preferred lies is no more than 6 inches for a competition to be a qualifying one.

 

[BillyBeardie]

When you say, "fell foul of", what do you mean?

Our club has "within one club length" as their amount of relief, so I've sent this info off to the comp secretary to see if he is aware about this as we play qualifying comps with the one club length, not 6 inches.

Nothing sinister, perhaps a poor choice of phrase. We used an inappropriate version of the local rule which we realised this year and have corrected. It's a little confusing that the RoG seem to allow this but CONGU doesn't. I only picked it up when attending one of the EGU handicapping workshops earlier this year. I hope it proves useful to your club to be aware of this, I know we weren't.

And apologies Lars for posting this on your thread - there was a direct link from Woody's comment and it seemed sensible to contribute at that point.

 

[rulefan]

When you say, "fell foul of", what do you mean?

Our club has "within one club length" as their amount of relief, so I've sent this info off to the comp secretary to see if he is aware about this as we play qualifying comps with the one club length, not 6 inches.

15-3
It is emphasised that preferred lies must apply only when a Local Rule has been made and published
in accordance with Appendix , Part B, 4c of the Rules of Golf as follows:
“A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green may be lifted without penalty and cleaned.
Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position.Having lifted the ball, he must place it on
a spot within 6 inches [ 50mm] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not
in a hazard and not on a putting green.

 

[Duckster]

During the WGC at Shanghai Branden Grace was allowed to take relief as his ball was close to the edge of a bunker causing a difficult stance (right foot at a steep part of the bunker).
Which rule allows this relief?
Lars

According to the commentators at the time, he got relief from his stance being interfered with by the bunker liner, which is classed as an immovable object.
Thank you and fare thee well.
Duckster.

 

[larsremvig]

It was not water near the ball but water in the bunker affecting his stance.

Sorry rulefan, but there was not water interfering with his right foot stance, which was at the steep slope of the bunker.
Lars

 

[rulefan]

Sorry rulefan, but there was not water interfering with his right foot stance, which was at the steep slope of the bunker.
Lars

OK thanks, Duckster seems to have sorted it with an immovable object (sic).

 

[KenL]

Rubbish.

Thanks for your support

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thanks for your support

Do they really have it easier though ?

The courses are set up much harder , longer , trickier , faster greens

But then the fairways are immaculate , rough trodden down , etc

But then there is the pressure - it's their livelihood ?

I think overall it's far harder for a pro tbh

 

[KenL]

Forgetting that it is their job, they get breaks and favourable rule decisions that would not come our way.

Final Open qualifying was at my club for the 2013 Open.

The pins were in easy positions and they got relief from paths that are in play for members.

At Gullane for the Scottish Open the rough was cut right back in a lot of places making the course far more open (i.e easier) than it normally is.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ok ask yourself this - would you score better in a pro comp ?

 

[KenL]

Ok ask yourself this - would you score better in a pro comp ?

Yes I would in theory if the rough was cut back, pins were fairer and obstructions normally in play were not.

 

[SammmeBee]

Grace - got very lucky and had relief from the bunker liner ;(immovable obstruction)

One club length preferred lies - is done to save time so they can just move the ball to a dry spot rather than take relief for casual water and then prefer the lie. It just cuts out the dropping stage.

 

[rulefan]

One club length preferred lies - is done to save time so they can just move the ball to a dry spot rather than take relief for casual water and then prefer the lie. It just cuts out the dropping stage.

1 cl PL is not only used by the pros, it is almost universal in North America and Asia. Except for qualifiers (in the UK and Europe) any distance is optional for any club or competition.

 

[Colin L]

Yes I would in theory if the rough was cut back, pins were fairer and obstructions normally in play were not.

I can bring home wonderfully low scores in theory. It’s the translation from theory to practical demonstration that’s the problem.

Can you give an example of an occasion when, as an amateur, you have been given what you consider an unfavourable ruling?

 

[KenL]

There have been occasions when I or others I have played with have looked for agreement from a fellow competitor and it was not granted.

One example is when I asked for relief from a sprinkler head. My playing partner argued that I should not get it as he thought that it was not on my line.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There have been occasions when I or others I have played with have looked for agreement from a fellow competitor and it was not granted.

One example is when I asked for relief from a sprinkler head. My playing partner argued that I should not get it as he thought that it was not on my line.

That's not unfair - that's just golf - you shouldn't have hit your ball there