Rare occurrence

[Kelvinnoel]

Playing today I was 6 ft short of the green at the same time my colleague was pin high but a little farther away also off the green we putted at almost the same time, the 2 balls ran true to the middle of the hole where they hit each other,my ball dropped in for a par and his was deflect to the side,he then holed his putt ,is there any penalty and who is penalize

 

[IanM]

No penalty to either of you. Your par is good and the other guy's holed putt is good.

Rule 11 ?‍?

Helllllllllllllppppp! I hope I'm wrong!!

Where are Rules Dudes when you need them!

 

[rulefan]

No penalty to either of you. Your par is good and the other guy's holed putt is good.

Rule 11 ?‍?

Helllllllllllllppppp! I hope I'm wrong!!

Where are Rules Dudes when you need them!

You don't need them. You got it right.

 

[Colin L]

No penalty to either of you. Your par is good and the other guy's holed putt is good.

Rule 11 ?‍?

Helllllllllllllppppp! I hope I'm wrong!!

Where are Rules Dudes when you need them!

Why hope you are wrong when you're right?

 

[IanM]

Little joke Colin...... I'm "yer average club golfer" and I've enrolled into a Rules Seminar in March. Will it change me?

 

[IanM]

You don't need them. You got it right. 

If player 2 had been on the green I'd have had to call for a ruling!

 

[rulefan]

If player 2 had been on the green I'd have had to call for a ruling!

The answer is in the same place

 

[IanM]

I know... I wasn't absolutely of the first answer without checking. But my initial guess was right

 

[rulefan]

I know... I wasn't absolutely of the first answer without checking. But my initial guess was right

Have you thought about trying the level 1 on-line R&A course?

 

[IanM]

? I'm doing it on Tuesday !

 

[Steve Wilkes]

I would have said as both balls were played from off the Green, there is no penalty and the next shots are played from where they finished ( ie 1 is in the hole and the other by the side of the hole ), But if one was putting from on the green, there is still no penalty but the one who putted from on the green would have to replay their shot (without penalty)

 

[Colin L]

You would have been right with that, Steve.

 

[backwoodsman]

I would have said as both balls were played from off the Green, there is no penalty and the next shots are played from where they finished ( ie 1 is in the hole and the other by the side of the hole ), But if one was putting from on the green, there is still no penalty but the one who putted from on the green would have to replay their shot (without penalty)

You would have been right with that, Steve.

Grateful if someone could explain? (I've seen rule 11.1b(2) and am not equating a moving ball with any of the three bullet points therein. Basically, I'm not seeing that a ball in motion equates to a movable obstruction). Where am I going wrong?

 

[rulefan]

Grateful if someone could explain? (I've seen rule 11.1b(2) and am not equating a moving ball with any of the three bullet points therein. Basically, I'm not seeing that a ball in motion equates to a movable obstruction). Where am I going wrong?

Obstruction
Any artificial object except for integral objects and boundary objects.

Movable Obstruction
An obstruction that can be moved with reasonable effort and without damaging the obstruction or the course.

 

[backwoodsman]

Obstruction
Any artificial object except for integral objects and boundary objects.

Movable Obstruction
An obstruction that can be moved with reasonable effort and without damaging the obstruction or the course.

But is a moving ball a movable obstruction? Would I not be in trouble if I tried to move/remove a ball that someone had played and which was still moving? Is it not just an outside agency?

 

[rulefan]

It is an Outside Influence
Any natural or artificial object or anything else (including another ball in motion),

But it is also an Obstruction

Obstruction
Any artificial object

But if a ball is moving after a stroke, there are specific rules which say what or what not may be done to/with it.

 

[backwoodsman]

I can see that a stationary ball can be both an outside influence and an obstruction, but am having serious difficulty in accepting that a played ball in motion, can be both an outside influence and a movable obstruction. In that I'm permitted to move a movable obstruction but presumably not permitted to take hold of and move a ball in motion . Or am I?

 

[Pants]

My head hurts

 

[salfordlad]

I can see that a stationary ball can be both an outside influence and an obstruction, but am having serious difficulty in accepting that a played ball in motion, can be both an outside influence and a movable obstruction. In that I'm permitted to move a movable obstruction but presumably not permitted to take hold of and move a ball in motion . Or am I?

The USGA has confirmed that the ball in motion is a movable obstruction for the purposes of applying Rule 11.1b(2). That is, while the parenthetical reference "(Including Another Ball In Motion)" in 2019's 11.1b Exception 2 has not been carried over into 2023's 11.1b(2), nothing has actually changed.
Single objects can meet multiple definitions. If you deliberately interfere with a ball in motion you may be penalised under 11.2 or 11.3 (depending on the how/when/where and why).

 

[rulefan]

I'm permitted to move a movable obstruction but presumably not permitted to take hold of and move a ball in motion . Or am I?

It depends. In certain circumstances you may but in others you may not. As I indicated in post #11 and salfordlad has clarified in post #19