Range Finders on Tour ?

[Qwerty]

Laser or no laser I'm not sure that it would actually make a difference to an already slow player.

When I've heard player & Caddie conversations deliberating over the shot they have the yardage straight away, the detail is usually about Wind speed/ Direction. Whether to attack the pin or aim for a safe part of the green, obviously club selection etc etc.. Obtaining the yardage appears to be quick and Straightforward

I think a slow player will always be slow as long as you allow him.

Only my opinion but it would be good to get a Caddies insight into this, do we have any on here?

 

[UlyssesSky]

difference being I HAVE ALWAYS USED BOG ROLL BUT NOT A DMD.

Hmmm... if that's the crucial difference, does that mean players who grew up using DMDs, and thus always have used a DMD (as well as bog roll, hopefully), should be allowed to use them when they make it on tour?


I think many of the arguments made against RFs are wrong or miss important points.

1. Using range finders takes away from the game/makes it "less golf" - No, because RFs simply give easier access to information the caddies/players already have. How getting the yardage live and on the spot instead of measuring important landmarks before the round and then pacing the distance from them to the ball during play should be "less golf" is beyond my limited intellectual abilities, I'm afraid.

2. RFs won't help with pace of play - I believe they will. Having to pace the distance to the nearest measured point and then calculating the distance to various other points (hazards, etc) takes time, which can be drastically reduced by using RFs. Pacing 10 yards to the nearest sprinkler head probably takes about 10 seconds alone, then the based on that result the distances to pins, hazards, landing areas, etc. have to be calculated. Let's say by using RFs the time needed to get the right distance can be reduced by 15 seconds per approach shot, and we're talking about saving up to 18 mins for a flight of 4 players...


3. Allowing RFs means opening pandora's box, since it inevitably will lead to all other kinds of gadgets and measuring devices becoming legal - This is simply not true, because, like pointed out before, RFs only give easier access to information they already have via their yardage books. Other data like wind speed, humidity, exact temperature is not available to players at present, which means enabling players to measure those would be something completely different than simply allowing them to get their yardages by using a laser instead of caculating them based on yardages from their yardage books (that were obtained using a laser...) and pacing the distance to measured points on the course.


It's funny how everybody seems to feel like the amount of technology (in any aspect of life/sport/...) is the exact right amount and anything more would be sacrilege. Times are changing, and always will be changing. You better get used to it now, or you won't be having much fun in the future.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Hmmm... if that's the crucial difference, does that mean players who grew up using DMDs, and thus always have used a DMD (as well as bog roll, hopefully), should be allowed to use them when they make it on tour?


I think many of the arguments made against RFs are wrong or miss important points.

1. Using range finders takes away from the game/makes it "less golf" - No, because RFs simply give easier access to information the caddies/players already have. How getting the yardage live and on the spot instead of measuring important landmarks before the round and then pacing the distance from them to the ball during play should be "less golf" is beyond my limited intellectual abilities, I'm afraid.

2. RFs won't help with pace of play - I believe they will. Having to pace the distance to the nearest measured point and then calculating the distance to various other points (hazards, etc) takes time, which can be drastically reduced by using RFs. Pacing 10 yards to the nearest sprinkler head probably takes about 10 seconds alone, then the based on that result the distances to pins, hazards, landing areas, etc. have to be calculated. Let's say by using RFs the time needed to get the right distance can be reduced by 15 seconds per approach shot, and we're talking about saving up to 18 mins for a flight of 4 players...


3. Allowing RFs means opening pandora's box, since it inevitably will lead to all other kinds of gadgets and measuring devices becoming legal - This is simply not true, because, like pointed out before, RFs only give easier access to information they already have via their yardage books. Other data like wind speed, humidity, exact temperature is not available to players at present, which means enabling players to measure those would be something completely different than simply allowing them to get their yardages by using a laser instead of caculating them based on yardages from their yardage books (that were obtained using a laser...) and pacing the distance to measured points on the course.


It's funny how everybody seems to feel like the amount of technology (in any aspect of life/sport/...) is the exact right amount and anything more would be sacrilege. Times are changing, and always will be changing. You better get used to it now, or you won't be having much fun in the future.

i have never dissed anyone for using a RF .

right point one ,tell me how many times you walked a course and measured it out to strategic points on a hole .no didnt thinks so.
and are you that much of an anorak that you actually used to pace out a chip shot.dear oh dear, try using yours eyes.

point 2 .i have never said it will speed up play ,or,come that slow it down.

point 3 second paragraph.its not my enjoyment that is being taken away fro me but all those that use RF`s .
are you seriously telling me that when they bring out a club that swings itself you will be using it ,cos its the latest tech rubbish on the market.


you carry on looking through your rose tinted RF`s and i will look through my eyes .
who is going to feel better about "THAT"shot that finishes stiff to the pin ,the one who needed tech help or the one that used what he was given.
if you can HONESTLY ,and i mean HONESTLY tell me the tech aided shot then im afraid you must have missed one of your pills this morning.

 

[User20205]

I've hit good shots without one, bad shots using one.

I currently don't use one, either laser or gps as I keep losing/breaking them.

Anyone who objects, it's one you're entitled to, but your opinion is pretty irrelevant. They're not going anywhere.

Re being used on tour, they won't speed up play. They may give the caddies a lie in the day before.

 

[User20205]

i have never dissed anyone for using a RF .

right point one ,tell me how many times you walked a course and measured it out to strategic points on a hole .no didnt thinks so.
and are you that much of an anorak that you actually used to pace out a chip shot.dear oh dear, try using yours eyes.

point 2 .i have never said it will speed up play ,or,come that slow it down.

point 3 second paragraph.its not my enjoyment that is being taken away fro me but all those that use RF`s .
are you seriously telling me that when they bring out a club that swings itself you will be using it ,cos its the latest tech rubbish on the market.


you carry on looking through your rose tinted RF`s and i will look through my eyes .
who is going to feel better about "THAT"shot that finishes stiff to the pin ,the one who needed tech help or the one that used what he was given.
if you can HONESTLY ,and i mean HONESTLY tell me the tech aided shot then im afraid you must have missed one of your pills this morning.

What driver, irons & ball do you use?

 

[UlyssesSky]

Oh boy, where to start...

i have never dissed anyone for using a RF .

I haven't dissed anyone either, I was merely making fun of the fact that you made it sound like "i have always used X, but not Y, thus Y shouldn't be used at all" was an actual argument.

right point one ,tell me how many times you walked a course and measured it out to strategic points on a hole .no didnt thinks so.
and are you that much of an anorak that you actually used to pace out a chip shot.dear oh dear, try using yours eyes.

The thread title is "Range Finders on Tour", i.e. we were talking about the use of range finders by professionals in official tournaments. Now you tell me how many times a player and his caddie didn't measure the course in the practice round and then pace the distance to the nearest measured points in competition but instead decided to "try using their eyes". Can't recall a single time? Didn't think so.

point 2 .i have never said it will speed up play ,or,come that slow it down.

My post wasn't directed exclusivly at you. And others did make arguments about pace of play and how range finders will/won't help with it.

point 3 second paragraph.its not my enjoyment that is being taken away fro me but all those that use RF`s .
are you seriously telling me that when they bring out a club that swings itself you will be using it ,cos its the latest tech rubbish on the market.

How do you know people take enjoyment from guessing distances instead of using a laser to measure them? For me (and, judging by the majority of responses, for many other as well) playing golf is about swinging the club and getting the ball to land as close to where I want it as possible, not about getting the distance to that point right without the help of a DMD.
So no, I won't use a self swinging club, but I will use a DMD.

you carry on looking through your rose tinted RF`s and i will look through my eyes .
who is going to feel better about "THAT"shot that finishes stiff to the pin ,the one who needed tech help or the one that used what he was given.
if you can HONESTLY ,and i mean HONESTLY tell me the tech aided shot then im afraid you must have missed one of your pills this morning.

You don't have to use a RF, but maybe glasses would be a good idea to help you see beyond your nose and realise there's more out there than just your idea about how things should be done. Until you do, I guess Albert Einstein's famous words remain true: "The horizon of many people is a cirlce with a radius of zero. They call this their point of view."

 

[Norrin Radd]

hickory shafts and featheries

 

[Imurg]

this is the sort of development where I see the risk and then issue arising. I also see it exacerbated by integration of on course playing conditions and scenario with a player's practice information and outcomes/decisions for the same combinations as will be provided and downloadable from the Cloud.

So for example the player is 152yds from the flag. His rangefinder tells him that and his GPS tells him exactly where he is on the fairway He knows the exact position of the flag on the green. The green protected front right by a bunker and is 31ft elevated from his ball position; air temperature is 20degC and there is a 10m/s wind from NNE - which resolves to 5.6m/s wind against. Pulling down practice information for this scenario from the Cloud the Device advises the player to hit a three-quarter 6iron over the middle of the right hand bunker as that is what his practice data when he has hit shots in practice adjusted for these conditions ans scenario tells him will give highest probability of a good outcome.

Maybe I exaggerate?

The R&A, in its infinite wisdom( don't start!) has decreed that the use of DMDs is allowed subject to a LR - as well we know. And that's for distance and distance only.
Everything else from your scenario above currently breaches rules and will do until Hell freezes over. The chances of the R&A allowing it are so minuscule its not worth thinking about them.
DMDs provide a distance that's all, its nothing mystical or immoral just a number that someone without a DMD can establish by several other means.
If people don't want to go down that road then they don't have to. After all you don't have to use modern clubs, balls, shoes, bags and trolleys etc. You don't have to use a 460cc driver if you don't think it's fair, you can use a 220cc one from 30 years ago its still allowed but don't have a go at those that do, after all it's legal. Just like a DMD. Legal. If you don't like it then don't use one. Simples.
These things have been around for years, I can't get my head around why some people can't accept that they're here and won't be going away.

DMDs won't speed up the Pro game because, as has been said, they spend most of their time discussing the shot, the hazards etc etc. For them, distance is only a small part of the equation.

 

[User20205]

hickory shafts and featheries

:thup:

 

[hines57]

This would be so sensible. Must save time if it stops the caddies fannying around trying to find the distance to the nearest centimetre from their yardage books.

Fully agree. Should cut round times a worthwhile amount.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The R&A, in its infinite wisdom( don't start!) has decreed that the use of DMDs is allowed subject to a LR - as well we know. And that's for distance and distance only.
Everything else from your scenario above currently breaches rules and will do until Hell freezes over. The chances of the R&A allowing it are so minuscule its not worth thinking about them.
DMDs provide a distance that's all, its nothing mystical or immoral just a number that someone without a DMD can establish by several other means.
If people don't want to go down that road then they don't have to. After all you don't have to use modern clubs, balls, shoes, bags and trolleys etc. You don't have to use a 460cc driver if you don't think it's fair, you can use a 220cc one from 30 years ago its still allowed but don't have a go at those that do, after all it's legal. Just like a DMD. Legal. If you don't like it then don't use one. Simples.
These things have been around for years, I can't get my head around why some people can't accept that they're here and won't be going away.

DMDs won't speed up the Pro game because, as has been said, they spend most of their time discussing the shot, the hazards etc etc. For them, distance is only a small part of the equation.

I like your confidence in the golfing authorities ability to resist demands from commercial interests keen to develop such as 'practice informed on-course' golf aid apps.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Until the R&A and PGA decide range finders are the way forward or at least give them a decent and fair trial, not just on satellite tours then it's all subjective. Interesting debate and some interesting points raised (some quite strongly). I can't see how it'll speed up those who are notoriously slow anyway.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Until the R&A and PGA decide range finders are the way forward or at least give them a decent and fair trial, not just on satellite tours then it's all subjective. Interesting debate and some interesting points raised (some quite strongly). I can't see how it'll speed up those who are notoriously slow anyway.

...and all our fellows who whip them out when within 50yds of the green!! All absolutely necessary of course - touch and feel from that distance? Nah - essential to know exact distance for my clubbing - not. But hey. I will desist (though nice to see @The Poacher picking up the batten that I threw to the ground in acceptance - though not defeat - a year or so back)

 

[AlanMills]

Hi, first post.

Frankly I'm not sure it will save any time at all overall. Anytime they;'re taking dead aim then yeah, maybe. But more than half the time on tour they don't do they? They're aiming for a particular slope or to just carry a bunker.

 

[Old Skier]

On the course today with 2 other, we all had DMD. All gave different readings, 1 x laser and 2 different GPS models. The 2 GPS ones were within 4 feet of each other most times and the laser was showing a greater distance each time.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

On the course today with 2 other, we all had DMD. All gave different readings, 1 x laser and 2 different GPS models. The 2 GPS ones were within 4 feet of each other most times and the laser was showing a greater distance each time.

You will get different readings between a laser and a GPS - that's nothing new. And GPS will vary dependent on the make and quality

 

[Three]

On the course today with 2 other, we all had DMD. All gave different readings, 1 x laser and 2 different GPS models. The 2 GPS ones were within 4 feet of each other most times and the laser was showing a greater distance each time.

ALWAYS go with the laser.

 

[drdel]

Personally I don't see the logic of objecting to any technology.

The best golfers are talented; their muscles and eye - hand co-ordination is superb and there-in lies the skill.

I'm all for allowing a free range on the information provided by technology: distance, wind, humidity, terrain, slope etc. etc. The golfer is still human and subject muscle tension and emotion.

I'd even dispense with the detail restriction on clubs; it might be fascinating to see what developments in design would come to the market.

If the officials clamp down on slow play, as they say they will; what does it matter?

Golf is a game of skill and the technology may help at the margins but the most talented players will still rise to the top.

 

[delc]

i dont like any type of range finder,they should be banned from all golf.
we managed without them before so why not now .

They help me to go round in fewer shots, so have to speed up play! What annoys me on the pro tours is the two minute discussion between the player and the caddie before every shot, even when the exact distance is already known. What on earth can they be talking about?!

 

[drdel]

They help me to go round in fewer shots, so have to speed up play! What annoys me on the pro tours is the two minute discussion between the player and the caddie before every shot, even when the exact distance is already known. What on earth can they be talking about?!

Delc its all the psycho-babble from their Sports Psychologists and getting into a positive mindset. The Pro-game is becoming sooooo slow I'd have GPS driven timers issued to all competitors that timed each shot and set off a buzzer when the allowed time limited was exceeded.