Railways, Underground and Unions

[SocketRocket]

I did read his post. Hence the chicken and egg question. But, just because he said something it doesn’t mean it’s true.

Where is the evidence to show the NHS deliberately employed cheap labour over homegrown nurses. It’s a genuine question.

I suspect the answer is it was a bit of both.

You miss the point again. No one mentioned cheap labour, rather the policy of importing trained staff rather than training them ourselves and how this is a contributing factor to increasing Population without increasing services.

 

[Fade and Die]

Hasty decision on your part.

Thomas Piketty is a French economist who is Professor of Economics at the School for Advanced Studies in the Social Sciences, Associate Chair at the Paris School of Economics and Centennial Professor of Economics in the International Inequalities Institute at the London School of Economics.

More cut and paste…

Piketty would allow small enterprises to be managed as they are now with capitalists holding the full power and workers being a hired labor, but as soon as such enterprises would go over the threshold, obligatory workers' shareholding would kick in.

tbh he sounds like a bit of a communist.

 

[Voyager EMH]

More cut and paste…

Piketty would allow small enterprises to be managed as they are now with capitalists holding the full power and workers being a hired labor, but as soon as such enterprises would go over the threshold, obligatory workers' shareholding would kick in.

tbh he sounds like a bit of a communist.

He also sounds like a bit of a capitalist.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

More cut and paste…

Piketty would allow small enterprises to be managed as they are now with capitalists holding the full power and workers being a hired labor, but as soon as such enterprises would go over the threshold, obligatory workers' shareholding would kick in.

tbh he sounds like a bit of a communist.

What sounds communist about that, I don't understand?

 

[Fade and Die]

He also sounds like a bit of a capitalist.

I think it suggests that he knows capitalism is vital to get businesses going as people need to be incentivised to work harder than the average salary man but inside his head he’s humming the Red Flag. ?

 

[clubchamp98]

Saw this and thought it was quite thought provoking on this whole situation.

View attachment 45502

That’s a blatant lie though.

 

[Fade and Die]

What sounds communist about that, I don't understand?

This is the simplest explanation I can find..?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_control

 

[clubchamp98]

Excellent post! Yes, shortsighted gains above everything else. Investing in people isn’t the thing ,is it??. Where’s my short term gain to enhance my wealth if I do that?
That’s all we’ve had for Decades.

As you say, we haven’t invested in our kids, trained them properly to want and attain skills like nursing etc ( Somehow we have allowed them to think that such aspirations are beneath them , or too hard to attain, so we now have no ambition amongst a lot of our kids)
And all this importing has now come home to roost. We have allowed ourselves to become reliant on people we want to call our “potential enemies “. How the hell is that sensible? Plus we have imported people and keep doing it, and now the system cannot cope because there are too many of us.
RESULT…NHS nearing collapse, ambulances not there when needed. Sick children sent home, not because they don’t need to be in hospital, but because there’s no room!!
Unbelievable!

Strikes looming all over the place. Because a group of greedy people massively ramped up prices on products we have all got no choice but to purchase. Others had to follow on and so the “I” word came out the woodwork.
But it will be the Unions fault.


Yet we must worry about trivia in the media. That’s what makes the headlines.
That’s what matters.
Wealthy families falling out, Celebrities doing outlandish stupid things in front of TV cameras, etc
The modern version of the Coliseum Games. Keep the mob happy!

We need to change…..fast!

Spot on.
We won’t have any nurses but we will have loads of Media Studies graduates to fill the papers.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

This is the simplest explanation I can find..?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_control

I don't interpret that as what he's suggesting though. I might be wrong, bit it seems like more of cooperative model. These stand offs come from each side not trusting or believing each other creating a them and us situation.
Unions have representation on many a board in Germany, it seems the more progressive option

 

[Voyager EMH]

I think it suggests that he knows capitalism is vital to get businesses going as people need to be incentivised to work harder than the average salary man but inside his head he’s humming the Red Flag. ?

As he is French, it is more likely to be the Internationale.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Since our friendly comrade has divulged how much a train driver gets, I cant help but feel that to be asking for such a huge pay increase is just greedy. Many sight the nurses and NHS for their low pay levels, so why don't the RMT forgo the increase they are argueing for and say we are fighting for the nurses and they can have a bigger increase as we are letting them have what we wanted.
That I feel would give them a greater support across the country rather than forcing people off the railway and possibly never to return.

 

[PJ87]

Since our friendly comrade has divulged how much a train driver gets, I cant help but feel that to be asking for such a huge pay increase is just greedy. Many sight the nurses and NHS for their low pay levels, so why don't the RMT forgo the increase they are argueing for and say we are fighting for the nurses and they can have a bigger increase as we are letting them have what we wanted.
That I feel would give them a greater support across the country rather than forcing people off the railway and possibly never to return.

Tbh time for some facts as you are taking 2 and 2 but producing 5.

A TUBE driver gets what I posted . Not network rail. That varies

Tube workers are NOT on strike over pay. All their strikes have been about job cuts and pension cut (ATM no strike is announced)

Network rail drivers aren't striking in the main, I think 1 strike they did. The rest they have been in running the service

It's the maintenance, station, revenue, etc staff who are striking

There pay is much much lower than a tube driver

I believe the average was 31k , I will have to check

But once again can people cut the rubbish out with "oh tube drivers earn so much and are striking over pay" they aren't

Network rail are and their drivers aren't

Confusion cleared up enough? Or do I need to get the crayons out for people

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Or do I need to get the crayons out for people

If you use crayons, go ahead. I use a ballpoint pen, but if thats your level then fill your boots.

 

[PJ87]

If you use crayons, go ahead. I use a ballpoint pen, but if thats your level then fill your boots.

Just thought some people on here might then get the level. I mean sometimes you need to spell it out so the people spouting rubbish actually take it in a bit

Back to basics

This is a train. It goes from a to b unless it's on a strike day when it might not leave c

Glad to be of assistant to you

Please correct your posts in future

 

[PJ87]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-and-what-they-earn-who-are-the-real-fat-cats

Some figures on it , the tube driver figure is out of date that's pre April

Note head of rmt took a pay cut ..

The strike isn't just pay it's a lot of conditions which are being bolted onto a pay

Basically take this pay rise but also accept cuts to every condition

First deal was 2% rise or 3% If you agree to job cuts

Nobody would agree that

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Just thought some people on here might then get the level. I mean sometimes you need to spell it out so the people spouting rubbish actually take it in a bit

Back to basics

This is a train. It goes from a to b unless it's on a strike day when it might not leave c

Glad to be of assistant to you

Please correct your posts in future

Yep, stick to crayons it suits you

 

[PJ87]

Yep, stick to crayons it suits you

Glad you are adding so much depth of information and knowledge to the debate .. crack on

 

[PNWokingham]

Very easy to get confused with all these different strikes, unions, demands, red lines etc

 

[PJ87]

Very easy to get confused with all these different strikes, unions, demands, red lines etc

I'm sure you can keep up Mr Nash

Maybe sign up to the rmt newsletter

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Excellent post! Yes, shortsighted gains above everything else. Investing in people isn’t the thing ,is it??. Where’s my short term gain to enhance my wealth if I do that?
That’s all we’ve had for Decades.

As you say, we haven’t invested in our kids, trained them properly to want and attain skills like nursing etc ( Somehow we have allowed them to think that such aspirations are beneath them , or too hard to attain, so we now have no ambition amongst a lot of our kids)
And all this importing has now come home to roost. We have allowed ourselves to become reliant on people we want to call our “potential enemies “. How the hell is that sensible? Plus we have imported people and keep doing it, and now the system cannot cope because there are too many of us.
RESULT…NHS nearing collapse, ambulances not there when needed. Sick children sent home, not because they don’t need to be in hospital, but because there’s no room!!
Unbelievable!

Strikes looming all over the place. Because a group of greedy people massively ramped up prices on products we have all got no choice but to purchase. Others had to follow on and so the “I” word came out the woodwork.
But it will be the Unions fault.


Yet we must worry about trivia in the media. That’s what makes the headlines.
That’s what matters.
Wealthy families falling out, Celebrities doing outlandish stupid things in front of TV cameras, etc
The modern version of the Coliseum Games. Keep the mob happy!

We need to change…..fast!

…and a good start in nursing would be to scrap that nurses have to pay for their training, go back to giving trainee nurses a bursary; getting paid form the work they do on wards; and cheap nursing accommodation and meals. In other words…go back to how it was before Project 2000. In that way nurses don’t qualify with a huge debt hanging over them, and so all the pressure that creates on salaries nurses are paid is released. Plus wipe out the debt that nurses have built up and are having to pay off, and that take from any wage increase they get.

Allow nurses to get on with being able to nurse rather than survive, and in that way instantly make nursing a much more attractive career choice than it has become - back to becoming a vocation where the money to survive does not need to be the #1 priority. And the need to recruit from overseas, plus all the issues associated with doing that, is reduced.