Railways, Underground and Unions

[Deleted member 21784]

The Armed forces can’t do anything beyond leaving , they can’t strike , down tools , get someone else to do their job for them

I wonder where all this extra money is going to come from to pay for all these demands

Maybe stop the next dogey contract handed out for how many billion? I think that's the entire reason everyone is so angry

Pay who deserves it and stop creaming contracts to friends

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We've just been told this morning that overtime is now cancelled. Usually we ride 5 on a fire engine. If someone calls on sick we get another firefighter in on single rate overtime. From Monday onwards if someone calls in sick we will just ride with 4. If a second person calls in sick putting us on 3 then we borrow a fire fighter from the next station putting us both on 4.

In other words. I've just lost 3k off my salary and the local community will get a a fire engine with not enough staff to perform a safe and timely rescue. We've been told we'll just have to wait for backup. Nearest "backup" from my station is 25 minutes on blue lights. Good luck to you all

…and you listen to the nursing situation in A&E and beyond; to the paramedics and how thin on the ground fully trained paramedics are - that most ambulances go out without one; and some have the gall and chutzpah to tell us that the strikers are putting the public at risk when in fact the TRUTH is that those striking are at least in large part doing so to highlight the risk, and that with no change in pay, Ts&Cs and staffing levels the risk to each and every one of us is increasing daily as trained staff across these public services leave. And yet the cry goes up from some ‘if you are not happy you can just leave‘. Yeh right.

And I fear that armed services personnel providing ‘strike cover’ can drift in time to becoming awfully close to being perceived as ‘strike breaking’…and there we do not as a country want to go.

I recently had occasion to drive a couple of times through Orgreave…having never been before…past parkland and fields and my mind went back to what we saw back then happen in these fields. And I reflected with sadness. We must not ever have such scenes repeated.

 

[hovis]

…and you listen to the nursing situation in A&E and beyond; to the paramedics and how thin on the ground fully trained paramedics are - that most ambulances go out without one; and some have the gall and chutzpah to tell us that the strikers are putting the public at risk when in fact the TRUTH is that those striking are at least in large part doing so to highlight the risk, and that with no change in pay, Ts&Cs and staffing levels the risk to each and every one of us is increasing daily as trained staff across these public services leave. And yet the cry goes up from some ‘if you are not happy you can just leave‘. Yeh right.

And I fear that armed services personnel providing ‘strike cover’ heads awfully close to being perceived as ‘strike breaking’…and there we do not as a country want to go.

We share a station with the paramedics. I can say with certainly that their position isn't great either. The biggest issue I see with them isn't pay, its working conditions. People like Phil who don't see this side of the fence will never understand (because they don't want too). How dire it is.
A fire fighter at my station (51) had a heart attack at his front door. His son the called the ambulance immediately and it took 50 minutes. It didn't even make the paper. I MAKES ME SOOOOOOO ANGRY THAT THIS HAPPENS AND THE WORKERS GET SLATED BY PEOPLE THAT KNOW CHAFF ALL ABOUT WHAT THEIR SPOUTING.

 

[Mudball]

I find it funny, how people are linking fair pay to supporting Putin. Not sure how to make that leap.
We are flying around Christmas and I just see that the top honcho has said we should "think carefully" about our plans. Maybe if they had given more thought, then we would not be in this situation.

I support people who ask for a fair pay; equally it has impact on businesses too. We had to move a few meetings and Christmas dos out of London due to the strikes.

Also it is a myth that the cost of living is impacting low income. For someone earing 50k a year, you dont have anything left at the end of the month. 60k in London is breadline. This is a disaster considering average pay in the country is about 27k

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I find it funny, how people are linking fair pay to supporting Putin. Not sure how to make that leap.
We are flying around Christmas and I just see that the top honcho has said we should "think carefully" about our plans. Maybe if they had given more thought, then we would not be in this situation.

I support people who ask for a fair pay; equally it has impact on businesses too. We had to move a few meetings and Christmas dos out of London due to the strikes.

Also it is a myth that the cost of living is impacting low income. For someone earing 50k a year, you dont have anything left at the end of the month. 60k in London is breadline. This is a disaster considering average pay in the country is about 27k

My prediction to the wife has come true, if she hadn't agreed to the solar project which is tied to the mortgage our Monthly bills would be the same but it would be going to energy companies where as this is invested in our house and once paid it's just lower bills.

Lots of people suffering all at once , mortgages rising. Bills going up

I mean take bt , they take the right biscuit .. their contracts are rpi plus 4% .. how is that justified? Inflation plus 4% ?

Do their workers even get rpi increases?

Thats what's annoying everyone

One rule for the mega rich and the workers getting the bum end of the deal

 

[Captainron]

I think that Joe Public has very little sympathy for the train drivers etc striking in particular due to the readily available numbers we see on TV and in the press. Paid reasonably well in the grand scheme of things.

The scale of impact derived from a strike is also severe enough to elicit a response from those who hold the purse strings. Unfortunately, those who rely on this transport to go about their lives are largely unable to affect their circumstances in the same way. I would feel pretty miffed if I needed to use the train to earn my wage and couldn’t especially for a wage increase that the private sector doesn’t give!

Luckily, I hardly ever use the train except when I am in London (as I will be next Tuesday/Wednesday) so I am not too concerned by this.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I think that Joe Public has very little sympathy for the train drivers etc striking in particular due to the readily available numbers we see on TV and in the press. Paid reasonably well in the grand scheme of things.

The scale of impact derived from a strike is also severe enough to elicit a response from those who hold the purse strings. Unfortunately, those who rely on this transport to go about their lives are largely unable to affect their circumstances in the same way. I would feel pretty miffed if I needed to use the train to earn my wage and couldn’t especially for a wage increase that the private sector doesn’t give!

Luckily, I hardly ever use the train except when I am in London (as I will be next Tuesday/Wednesday) so I am not too concerned by this.

Problem is the numbers you are reading in the TV and press are inflated and misleading on purpose

It's like when tube drivers are apparently on 100k a year

This was 2 test train drivers who do night shifts and drive the eng trains (you need to know every single line for this ) and there basic is higher than a normal driver then overtime included in this 100k figure as they were like the only 2 available to complete the works etc

Yet our normal drivers yes are well paid but it's nowhere near 100k and also can't do overtime under the professional drivers agreement of 1996 (believe year was)

So take with massive pinch of salt any number

Plus the fact drivers aren't striking ..

Just adding the numbers

The real figure is 64k for a tube driver now I'm not saying that's not a lot of money it's a fantastic wage for them. However what I am saying when the press incorrectly report 100k for tube drivers it's incredibly misleading

It's deliberate aswell.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My prediction to the wife has come true, if she hadn't agreed to the solar project which is tied to the mortgage our Monthly bills would be the same but it would be going to energy companies where as this is invested in our house and once paid it's just lower bills.

Lots of people suffering all at once , mortgages rising. Bills going up

I mean take bt , they take the right biscuit .. their contracts are rpi plus 4% .. how is that justified? Inflation plus 4% ?

Do their workers even get rpi increases?

Thats what's annoying everyone

One rule for the mega rich and the workers getting the bum end of the deal

I read yesterday that some water companies are making massive and increased profits…are our water bills coming down; are the employees getting inflation linked wage increases (maybe they are though as privatised I’m guessing many employees won’t be in a union so not in much position to complain or strike); are the increased profits all going into the infrastructure? Maybe.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I read yesterday that some water companies are making massive and increased profits…are our water bills coming down; are the employees getting inflation linked wage increases (maybe they are though as privatised I’m guessing many employees won’t be in a union so not in much position to complain or strike); are the increased profits all going into the infrastructure? Maybe.

That's my problem with privatisation is the lack of investment into the network back

That's why tfl model works and the gov want to make the railways all a tfl model

All profits go back into improvements rather than shareholders

We aren't tech publicly owned

 

[Tashyboy]

It was cancelled by our chief. We used to run with 7 on our watch but 5 on the fire engine. This was because there would always be one or two away on courses, leave or detached to other stations to plug gaps.
They busted us down to 6 about 3 years ago and said " don't worry because this will be good for you lot as they'll be loads of overtime for you all".
It came with one condition. Said overtime would only be paid at single rate. Apparently it was still cheaper to pay the remaining firefighters to do the extra work than it was to employ a 7th person (due to oncosts).
We basically built a system that relied on overtime. The union warned us against it but people needed the money.

Our chief has now said that overtime is cancelled and we'll just ride 4. This is the only way he can make the cuts he needs to due to cuts in his budget from central government. Its a tragic situation

Scary thing is, 16 years ago we ran with 15 per watch, two fire engines comprising of
Ladder with 5
Pump ladder with 4
Alp (massive ladder you see in the movies) with 2

Now we're on 5 ? and the portion of your Council tax that pays for the fire service has gone up ???

All this kinda mirrors what I was trying to say re cut backs and wages etc.

Re your chief I kinda feel sorry for him. When pit closures were announced, closing down of different coal seams in collieries.An area manager once stood on a stage in front of hundreds of men and was asked why he was brutally doing what he was doing.
His response was one I have Never forgot. “ If at first you don’t succeed, your successor will”. In essence if he didn’t do it, the next person would.
Magnify that with all the services that are being hammered, there’s a lot of folk out there that are number shuffling

 

[Tashyboy]

…and you listen to the nursing situation in A&E and beyond; to the paramedics and how thin on the ground fully trained paramedics are - that most ambulances go out without one; and some have the gall and chutzpah to tell us that the strikers are putting the public at risk when in fact the TRUTH is that those striking are at least in large part doing so to highlight the risk, and that with no change in pay, Ts&Cs and staffing levels the risk to each and every one of us is increasing daily as trained staff across these public services leave. And yet the cry goes up from some ‘if you are not happy you can just leave‘. Yeh right.

And I fear that armed services personnel providing ‘strike cover’ can drift in time to becoming awfully close to being perceived as ‘strike breaking’…and there we do not as a country want to go.

I recently had occasion to drive a couple of times through Orgreave…having never been before…past parkland and fields and my mind went back to what we saw back then happen in these fields. And I reflected with sadness. We must not ever have such scenes repeated.

I was there before I scabbed, it was a civil war on these shores.

 

[clubchamp98]

That’s the same when we had to cover for the Firemen mid 00’s when we rolled out the Green Goddess’s- most of the guys on a lot less than fireman and no pay rise for years for any of us at the time

At one stage it got quite heated when we were having to go out on call and they were all stood outside giving us grief and then also making sure that we didn’t use their beds or pool tables etc




They certainly got a far better deal than any of the military guys who didn’t get any sniff of a pay rise for years

Not meant to be funny. Genuine question.
But what are all these soldiers doing at the moment, that they can just drop everything and go be a paramedics driver, plus all the other jobs they are being drawn for.
Where will they stay

 

[SocketRocket]

It was cancelled by our chief. We used to run with 7 on our watch but 5 on the fire engine. This was because there would always be one or two away on courses, leave or detached to other stations to plug gaps.
They busted us down to 6 about 3 years ago and said " don't worry because this will be good for you lot as they'll be loads of overtime for you all".
It came with one condition. Said overtime would only be paid at single rate. Apparently it was still cheaper to pay the remaining firefighters to do the extra work than it was to employ a 7th person (due to oncosts).
We basically built a system that relied on overtime. The union warned us against it but people needed the money.

Our chief has now said that overtime is cancelled and we'll just ride 4. This is the only way he can make the cuts he needs to due to cuts in his budget from central government. Its a tragic situation

Scary thing is, 16 years ago we ran with 15 per watch, two fire engines comprising of
Ladder with 5
Pump ladder with 4
Alp (massive ladder you see in the movies) with 2

Now we're on 5 ? and the portion of your Council tax that pays for the fire service has gone up ???

Will a big wage increase fix the staffing problems you mention. When Firefighter jobs are advertised is there a problem with low applications. Could most Firefighters get a job with better pay if they left the service.

 

[SocketRocket]

Can the country afford the wage increases being asked for, if not how do we generate the money to pay for them and if the answer is ' Tax the rich' please support that with realistic expectations.

Will these salary increases resolve issues like ambulance stacking, trollies queued in hospital corridors, shortage of beds, difficulties seeing a GP, trains running on time, better education for school children and so on, or is that another bunch of taxation and are we happy to pay it.

Genuinely interested in answers.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Can the country afford the wage increases being asked for, if not how do we generate the money to pay for them and if the answer is ' Tax the rich' please support that with realistic expectations.

Will these salary increases resolve issues like ambulance stacking, trollies queued in hospital corridors, shortage of beds, difficulties seeing a GP, trains running on time, better education for school children and so on, or is that another bunch of taxation and are we happy to pay it.

Genuinely interested in answers.

The country can afford more than is painted, always find money when it suits for other bits. Won't go into much as it's simply political.

If wages aren't held back over the years you would have seen less people leave the NHS etc and would be able to keep them thus enabling more appointments.

Same with education, too many leaving the profession due to Cuts , for example teaches buying their own resources for kids because no funds , teaching assistants jacking it in because can't live off the wage meaning more.is piled on teachers

Railways 100% can afford it when profits are being taken out the network to the tune of billions.

Like I've said before people are so angry because the workers get "oh not enough money for you to have a payrise" but those ar the top can have one, plus expenses to pay their increased energy bills so they don't even notice the cost of living plus dodgy contracts handed out to friends which take public money that could be used to fund public services

 

[Voyager EMH]

Can the country afford the wage increases being asked for, if not how do we generate the money to pay for them and if the answer is ' Tax the rich' please support that with realistic expectations.

Will these salary increases resolve issues like ambulance stacking, trollies queued in hospital corridors, shortage of beds, difficulties seeing a GP, trains running on time, better education for school children and so on, or is that another bunch of taxation and are we happy to pay it.

Genuinely interested in answers.

Taxing the wealthiest 10 people in the country at 1% of their wealth would raise approx £1.5 billion.
Other countries do have a wealth tax. A lot more than 10 people pay it.
I'm afraid this is not a realistic expectation (at the moment, this government will not introduce a wealth tax), but it does show that there is plenty of money in the country.
It is simply a case of what should we do with that money and why?
We have to answer the question, "Where did they get that money from, was it us, (or did it fall from the sky), and do we need some back?"

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Taxing the wealthiest 10 people in the country at 1% of their wealth would raise approx £1.5 billion.
Other countries do have a wealth tax. A lot more than 10 people pay it.
I'm afraid this is not a realistic expectation (at the moment, this government will not introduce a wealth tax), but it does show that there is plenty of money in the country.
It is simply a case of what should we do with that money and why?
We have to answer the question, "Where did they get that money from, was it us, (or did it fall from the sky), and do we need some back?"

£1.5b would cover NHS running costs for less than 3 days. It’s a drop in to ocean.

You can’t simply keep taxing those who are already paying the largest share more. Look at how many adults are net contributors to the treasury, and how many people pay no income tax at all.

Personally, I think we need a radical overhaul of all public services. What does the country actually need to be a heathy and prosperous place to live? Stating with the NHS. But that will never happen.

As well as making sure big business pays what it should. There needs to be a serious look into the black economy.

I think that everyone should pay into the system in some way. Surely feeling like you are making a contribution to society will make people respect that society more.

Anyone claiming unemployment benefits that is able to work should be given work to do. The equivalent hours at minimum wage to what their benefits are.

It’s a complex issue.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

£1.5b would cover NHS running costs for less than 3 days. It’s a drop in to ocean.

You can’t simply keep taxing those who are already paying the largest share more. Look at how many adults are net contributors to the treasury, and how many people pay no income tax at all.

Personally, I think we need a radical overhaul of all public services. What does the country actually need to be a heathy and prosperous place to live? Stating with the NHS. But that will never happen.

As well as making sure big business pays what it should. There needs to be a serious look into the black economy.

I think that everyone should pay into the system in some way. Surely feeling like you are making a contribution to society will make people respect that society more.

Anyone claiming unemployment benefits that is able to work should be given work to do. The equivalent hours at minimum wage to what their benefits are.

It’s a complex issue.

I think we need to overhaul the tax system

Lower the 45p bracket to 100k but get rid of that silly bit 100k-125k you start to lose your personal allowance but by bit and have to do tax returns

No.

PAYE system.. anything over 100k taxed at 45p

Etc

Rather than oh right after 125k 45p
Before that lose your tax

Make it simple

 

[clubchamp98]

To many shareholders in essential services.
Government are subsidising firms with taxpayers money that pay shareholder dividends.
But can’t pay a decent wage to the workers that generate the profits.
Until that changes we’re going to have strikes.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

To many shareholders in essential services.
Government are subsidising firms with taxpayers money that pay shareholder dividends.
But can’t pay a decent wage to the workers that generate the profits.
Until that changes we’re going to have strikes.

During covid , the rail franchises were bailed out but profits allowed to be paid to the shareholders...

That's another thing that just sticks