Railways, Underground and Unions

[doublebogey7]

Yes the strike laws are so strict now

Now you need at least 50% turn out with 40% of that 50% voting in favour to be deemed legal

To put in perspective asleff mandate which they haven't used yet for the lul pension strike. They are sitting waiting

It's 90% turn out. 98% voting yes for strike action

That's a pretty huge mandate

However a no vote

Don't think that's right. It's my understanding that generally at least over 50% of those voting must have voted in favour of industrial action but that in certain "important public sectors" at least 40% of those entitled to vote must have voted in favour.

 

[PJ87]

Don't think that's right. It's my understanding that generally at least over 50% of those voting must have voted in favour of industrial action but that in certain "important public sectors" at least 40% of those entitled to vote must have voted in favour.

Yes sorry 50% of those must vote and then over 40% overall

Very tough thresholds

Yet they still got through , that's a lot of people

 

[BrianM]

What about Doctors, nurses, Firefighters, police officers, support staff, cleaners etc that are reliant on train services to get to their work.Im pretty sure you’d be peed off if something happened to a loved one because of staff shortages.
Just an alternative view, I’ve worked for private companies all my life so maybe I’m missing a trick.

 

[PJ87]

What about Doctors, nurses, Firefighters, police officers, support staff, cleaners etc that are reliant on train services to get to their work.Im pretty sure you’d be peed off if something happened to a loved one because of staff shortages.
Just an alternative view, I’ve worked for private companies all my life so maybe I’m missing a trick.

You do know nurses are going out next month?
Fire fighters have voted for strike
Police officers can't strike
Doctors set to vote in January and most likely will

And ambulance drivers are striking

So it's not just railways by a long shot

 

[BrianM]

You do know nurses are going out next month?
Fire fighters have voted for strike
Police officers can't strike
Doctors set to vote in January and most likely will

And ambulance drivers are striking

So it's not just railways by a long shot

This thread is about Railways, Underground and Unions……..

We’ll never agree anyway which is fine, My personal belief is there is always a choice where you work, if you’re not happy with pay, pension, conditions etc, move on.

 

[PJ87]

This thread is about Railways, Underground and Unions……..

We’ll never agree anyway which is fine, My personal belief is there is always a choice where you work, if you’re not happy with pay, pension, conditions etc, move on.

Strongly disagree.

Public service is completely different from the private sector

You don't want your work force to up and leave on mass because you have held back pay and conditions

We need nurses and teachers, fireman etc to stay in the professions

In my department we have 5 vacancies atm. It's choas for coverage , 3 training and we will be lucky if 1 passes in 12 months of training but in that time 3 are retiring and one is being promoted

That's just about manageable on overtime , if you just all decide right we off to another rail firm because this isn't good enough for us the whole thing would fall apart

U need to encourage staff to stay

Private sector is different there is always another company you can go work for in the same sector

And it is about nurses , fire fighters etc because this thread is about unions. All of them are covered by unions.

 

[PJ87]

@BrianM

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...arn-reject-5-per-cent-pay-offer-b1044870.html

You wouldn't want your fire service to just up and leave for better wages because their wages have been held back

Edit here is it copied and pasted incase it won't let you read without signing up

How much do firefighters earn after rejecting 5% pay offer?
It seems increasingly likely that Fire Brigades Union members will join the growing list of UK workers to go on strike

<p>Firefighters need to work irregular shift patterns and often undertake very dangerous drills </p>
Firefighters need to work irregular shift patterns and often undertake very dangerous drills / PA Wire
W
If this happens, the FBU’s members will join a growing list of unions that are taking industrial action this winter.

But how much do firefighters earn and why are they voting on strikes?

How much do firefighters earn?
Trainee firefighters in the UK earn an average yearly salary of £28,730. Once fully qualified, their basic salary will increase to £38,340 - £39,325 per annum.

Firefighters need to work irregular shift patterns. The current shift system is based on four shifts, followed by four days off duty.

Why are firefighters voting on strikes?
The FBU noted that the current rate of inflation is a record-high 11.1 per cent and said that firefighters and control staff required a "significant salary boost" that takes into account the cost of living crisis.

In November, the FBU rejected a five per cent pay offer. It said 79 per cent of its members had voted against the “disgusting” deal and that it would fail to support firefighters, some of whom have turned to food banks.

The union said the offer actually represented a significant pay cut in real terms. It said this followed a decade of real-terms pay cuts in the fire and rescue service.

FBU general secretary Mr Wrack said: “The question of pay is an urgent one. Pay has fallen in real terms for the past 12 years, so a competent firefighter on the national rate of pay is at least some £4,000 a year worse off than if their pay had kept pace with [consumer price index] CPI inflation.

“That is alarming. We are currently consulting about an offer from our employers.

“We have firefighters, and I’m sure, they’re very proud people — but we have firefighters using food banks.

“There is a growing crisis about the cost of living, as there is for millions of other people, but very much in the fire and rescue service and it has been allowed to drift for more than a decade.”

The Government does not directly participate in salary discussions, the FBU says, but it does "give a significant amount of the funds for fire and rescue services”.

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ALREADY HAVE AN ACCOUNT?

 

[2blue]

This thread is about Railways, Underground and Unions……..

We’ll never agree anyway which is fine, My personal belief is there is always a choice where you work, if you’re not happy with pay, pension, conditions etc, move on.

& is perhaps why we're so short of teachers, doctors etc. Trained them then force them abroad or out of the professions

 

[PJ87]

& is perhaps why we're so short of teachers, doctors etc. Trained them then force them abroad or out of the professions

That is exactly why we do have a shortage of education staff.

Teaching assistants having to leave a job they love and want to support kids to go and work at Tesco (nothing wrong with that) because it pays more

However those assistants if not replaced the teachers don't get help

Also you need the right kind of people in the class room

You want to keep them not drive them to leave

 

[PJ87]

Here's why the pay deal was rejected

People need to forget the numbers the devil is in detail like this which is frankly disgusting

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

View attachment 45454
Here's why the pay deal was rejected

People need to forget the numbers the devil is in detail like this which is frankly disgusting

Is that real or is it a spoof…if it’s real it’s bonkers…?

 

[Deleted member 23270]

View attachment 45454
Here's why the pay deal was rejected

People need to forget the numbers the devil is in detail like this which is frankly disgusting

It's the modern world. Less people, more technology. It's also the reason we have lost so many of our traditional industries like car manufacturing, ship building, coal mining etc. Unions demanded things like no redundancies etc yet productivity was poor and those industries couldn't compete with foreign competition.

 

[Voyager EMH]

It's the modern world. Less people, more technology. It's also the reason we have lost so many of our traditional industries like car manufacturing, ship building, coal mining etc. Unions demanded things like no redundancies etc yet productivity was poor and those industries couldn't compete with foreign competition.

Because we did not invest in the new production technology. That would have improved productivity. Other countries did this with government support.

 

[PJ87]

It's the modern world. Less people, more technology. It's also the reason we have lost so many of our traditional industries like car manufacturing, ship building, coal mining etc. Unions demanded things like no redundancies etc yet productivity was poor and those industries couldn't compete with foreign competition.

I'm afraid that's incredibly one sided and not fully correct

Unions weren't ideal in that time but certainly didn't cause us to lose industry

I can't go further without risking politics so I will leave it there

 

[Fade and Die]

Because we did not invest in the new production technology. That would have improved productivity. Other countries did this with government support.

A lack of investment and poor management was part of the reason, coupled with the fact that we simply had too many brands all bundled into one company (British Leyland) producing very similar cars and actually competing with themselves.

They were nationalised in 1975 by the Wilson government in an attempt to stop the whole thing going to the wall, the government poured £11 Billion pounds of taxpayers money into it but it was not enough.

But it’s laughable you not recognising the role the unions played in its downfall.
Take this example 1977/78:

https://www.expressandstar.com/news.../2017/11/16/red-robbo-ruined-british-leyland/

520 Stopages were called in a 12 month period at Longbridge by a militant agitator shop steward. This led to shoddy unreliable cars that the public turned their back on.

There are many contributing factors to the demise of the British car industry but to ignore the unions role in it is extremely blinkered.

 

[PJ87]

What also needs to be pointed out over "Christmas " strikes is they won't really affect customers

Xmas Eve the strike starts 18:00 hours. Most workers have started before 18:00 and you don't walk out midshift you finish your shift.

So services will be running

Boxing day network rail dont run anyways

 

[PNWokingham]

Moaning Markle and the Ginger Whinger have lost at leat 14 staff since they got married - time to call in Mick Lynch and Rally the troops!

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Because we did not invest in the new production technology. That would have improved productivity. Other countries did this with government support.

What new production technology did we need in coal mining and ship building?

 

[PJ87]

What new production technology did we need in coal mining and ship building?

"Deep mining for coal was already on its death bed by 1984 as cheaper exports from abroad combined with a reluctance on the part of government to continue with subsidies, a changing energy culture and a rising environmental movement all conspired against the industry. "

Lifted from an article that would be deemed too political to post so if you want it I can pm it to you

That's a neutral snippet from the article

 

[Deleted member 23270]

"Deep mining for coal was already on its death bed by 1984 as cheaper exports from abroad combined with a reluctance on the part of government to continue with subsidies, a changing energy culture and a rising environmental movement all conspired against the industry. "

Lifted from an article that would be deemed too political to post so if you want it I can pm it to you

That's a neutral snippet from the article

The clue is cheaper exports from abroad. At the time miners were on strike a lot, productivity was low and they basically wanted more money for less work. Hardly surprising the industry went belly up.