Railways, Underground and Unions

[Pants]

Come on then guys. Post all your myopic views (from all sides of the subject) here instead of hijacking other more interesting threads.

I won't bother to check in on this thread though.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Myopic views?

Daily Mail does that job for us.
Don't need this thread.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

If this thread turns political, it will be closed and those who caused it will be given infractions.

Exactly the same as any other thread then

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If this thread turns political, it will be closed and those who caused it will be given infractions.

Exactly the same as any other thread then

It can inevitably only end up political so may as well close it now to stop me getting an infraction. Though I could just bite my lip when the usual suspects post the usual sort of stuff.

I suppose, though, that i might non-politically suggest that most, if not all, of the employment rights, pay and conditions most of us enjoy today, regardless of whether or not we are in a union or in a unionised employment, have come about as a result of the past work of the unions on behalf of us. And it is not difficult to see where erosion of these rights leads, because we know from where we have come and back we could well go.

Thats my go at being non-political about unions…I think I might just have succeeded ?

 

[Fade and Die]

It can inevitably only end up political so may as well close it now to stop me getting an infraction.

I suppose i might non-politically suggest that most, if not all, of the employment rights, pay and conditions most of us enjoy today, regardless of whether or not we are in a union or in a unionised employment, have come about as a result of the past work of the unions on behalf of us. And it is not difficult to see where erosion of these rights leads, because we know from where we have come and back we would go.

Thats my go at being non-political about unions…I think I might just have succeeded ?

Cannot argue with your point regarding pay and conditions we enjoy today but unfortunately unions do not stick to just employment issues.

Through a family member I am very familiar with an ongoing 6 year Employment tribunal case that has been appealed and won twice by the appellant. Once it is resolved it is intended to reveal the massive levels of collusion between a certain Union and a certain Company.

Re this strike, pnw was subject to sniping on the other thread for mentioning it was going to affect his Christmas socialising, what people fail to see is that this spiteful strike will affect the poorest paid in our society the most…
https://www.ukhospitality.org.uk/ne...ED-AS-HOSPITALITY-SET-TO-LOSE-1.5-BILLION.htm

An industry that has been struggling more than most over the last few years dealt another blow by greedy RMT members.

 

[SteveW86]

It can inevitably only end up political so may as well close it now to stop me getting an infraction. Though I could just bite my lip when the usual suspects post the usual sort of stuff.

I suppose, though, that i might non-politically suggest that most, if not all, of the employment rights, pay and conditions most of us enjoy today, regardless of whether or not we are in a union or in a unionised employment, have come about as a result of the past work of the unions on behalf of us. And it is not difficult to see where erosion of these rights leads, because we know from where we have come and back we could well go.

Thats my go at being non-political about unions…I think I might just have succeeded ?

I think you should forget the rules and post what you really think

 

[PJ87]

As posted last night I'd like to see a public sector pay policy brought in.

All public sector employees to get CPI linked rises

That means your nurses, police, firefighters, armed forces (typically all viewed as underpaid) get the same rise % wise as your "greedy" railway workers and MPs

The police already have an independent pay review panel who suggests their pay rises as they can not strike. They get shafted most of the time . So if every public sector got the same % to keep up with the cost of living it would be fair.

Now for those who will , rightly, point to what about your private sector worker who doesn't get this.. many have suggested if you don't like your pay and conditions leave for another job. That's one option, however you don't want that for public sector, we don't need nurses, drs and fire fighters buggering off as we need to retain them . That's why this policy is key .

Private sector is usually more profit driven and wages rise and fall with the success of the company. Tesco gave their workers rises during covid as they were raking it in for example

Pensioners get the triple lock which I think is brilliant, all I'm suggesting here is it's extended to public pay and that's CPi based only

Considering the bank of England target is 2% most of the time it's 2% a year

It's only one off crazy events like we got now that would cause an issue

Also if this was agreed it would take a lot of power away from the unions as the pay deals would no longer need signing off .. so they couldn't stop paydeals to change other bits but on same side companies couldn't force things through on conditions of pay deals being signed

So I think it would take the political games were Joe public gets in the middle off the table

That's not non political answer as much as possible

 

[Voyager EMH]

Cannot argue with your point regarding pay and conditions we enjoy today but unfortunately unions do not stick to just employment issues.

Through a family member I am very familiar with an ongoing 6 year Employment tribunal case that has been appealed and won twice by the appellant. Once it is resolved it is intended to reveal the massive levels of collusion between a certain Union and a certain Company.

Re this strike, pnw was subject to sniping on the other thread for mentioning it was going to affect his Christmas socialising, what people fail to see is that this spiteful strike will affect the poorest paid in our society the most…
https://www.ukhospitality.org.uk/ne...ED-AS-HOSPITALITY-SET-TO-LOSE-1.5-BILLION.htm

An industry that has been struggling more than most over the last few years dealt another blow by greedy RMT members.

It is a strike. It is not a spiteful strike.

The non-greedy members may strike as well.

Genuine concerns over the hospitality business will be alleviated with an early settlement.

 

[chellie]

They are all in league with Putin according to someone I saw on TV yesterday

 

[Fade and Die]

It is a strike. It is not a spiteful strike.

The non-greedy members may strike as well.

Genuine concerns over the hospitality business will be alleviated with an early settlement.

Disagree, its timing in the run up to Christmas is designed to cause maximum disruption and loss to ordinary people. Spiteful.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Disagree, its timing in the run up to Christmas is designed to cause maximum disruption and loss to ordinary people. Spiteful.

Exaggeration again.

A lot of disruption is not maximum disruption.
The strike is not a spiteful strike. It is a strike. It will cause disruption to people - both the ordinary and the extraordinary.

 

[Fade and Die]

Exaggeration again.

A lot of disruption is not maximum disruption.
The strike is not a spiteful strike. It is a strike. It will cause disruption to people - both the ordinary and the extraordinary.

Christmas time is the busiest time of the year for the rail network. Do you think it’s coincidence the strikes have been called for now? Of course not, it’s to cause MAXIMUM disruption.

 

[PJ87]

Disagree, its timing in the run up to Christmas is designed to cause maximum disruption and loss to ordinary people. Spiteful.

Entirely the point tho, if you don't make it a risk for those holding the cards you lose all power, unfortunately.

Talks were offered and a deal was going to be on table last month, so strike was cancelled

Then deal was pulled , strike back on

Then this deal isn't enough to end it

Can't entirely push this to the unions doors when the goal posts keep changing

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Entirely the point tho, if you don't make it a risk for those holding the cards you lose all power, unfortunately.

Talks were offered and a deal was going to be on table last month, so strike was cancelled

Then deal was pulled , strike back on

Then this deal isn't enough to end it

Can't entirely push this to the unions doors when the goal posts keep changing

And if any of the negotiating parties wishes to turn rail users against another party for their own purposes they can simply refuse to negotiate or offer/demand something that they know or can guess will be unacceptable.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

…and as far as the nurses and observations made by others about nurses and the nursing unions this weekend…well my Mrs is spitting tacks ?

 

[PJ87]

And if any of the negotiating parties wishes to turn rail users against another party for their own purposes they can simply refuse to negotiate or offer/demand something that they know or can guess will be unacceptable.

Work from home is saving the economy a lot of money now, so strikes can go on longer in the hope that the members will get fed up or not be able to afford to strike

It's a long game from both sides

 

[Voyager EMH]

Christmas time is the busiest time of the year for the rail network. Do you think it’s coincidence the strikes have been called for now? Of course not, it’s to cause MAXIMUM disruption.

Wrong use of the word "maximum" again.
On strike days it is expected that around one in five trains will run. Some lines will see no service at all.
"Maximum" disruption would mean no trains running at all anywhere.
There will be a lot of disruption.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Work from home is saving the economy a lot of money now, so strikes can go on longer in the hope that the members will get fed up or not be able to afford to strike

It's a long game from both sides

If the wish is for there to be no strikes over the Christmas and New Year period then ALL parties know what they can do to make that happen. If any party has no genuine desire to reach a compromise settlement but are driven by other than settlement outcomes, then no compromise settlement will be reached and that party may well achieve their own desired outcome in the court of public opinion. But they are gambling with the public‘s Christmas and New Year.

 

[WGCRider]

…and as far as the nurses and observations made by others about nurses and the nursing unions this weekend…well my Mrs is spitting tacks ?

What nurses need to realise is that they've had their rewards already. Our hands are still hurting from all those Thursday night rounds of applause. You really can't put a price on that.
Anyway - off to really stick it to Putin by turning off the heating.

 

[PJ87]

What nurses need to realise is that they've had their rewards already. Our hands are still hurting from all those Thursday night rounds of applause. You really can't put a price on that.
Anyway - off to really stick it to Putin by turning off the heating.

The more people that freeze this winter the less the NHS will cost next winter

Forward planning