R&A To Tackle Slow Play

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I don’t doubt the good intentions of those that attended but I fear the ‘pace of play manual’ that’ll come out in the spring will contain nothing new except to restate what's been published numerous times on hundreds of websites/magazines/notice-boards and countless scorecards

Reading the BBC piece I’m reminded of the Life of Brian. Hope I’m wrong but might this have happened...



Scene 21


REG (R&A): Right. Now, uh, item four: attainment of faster pace of play within the next five years. Uh, Francis, you've been doing some work on this.

FRANCIS: Yeah. Thank you, Reg. Well, quite frankly, siblings, I think five years is optimistic, unless we can smash the 4hr round within the next twelve months.

REG: Twelve months?

FRANCIS: Yeah, twelve months. And, let's face it. As pace of play goes, this is the big one, so we've got to get up off our bums and stop just talking about it!

COMMANDOS: Hear! Hear!

LORETTA: I agree. It's action that counts, not words, and we need action now.

COMMANDOS: Hear! Hear!

REG: You're right. We could sit around here all day talking, passing resolutions, making clever speeches. It's not going to shift one player to move faster!

FRANCIS: So, let's just stop gabbing on about it. It's completely pointless and it's getting us nowhere!

COMMANDOS: Right!

LORETTA: I agree. This is a complete waste of time.

JUDITH: They've arrested Jordan Spieth!

REG: What?

COMMANDOS: What?

JUDITH: They've dragged him off! They're going to crucify him!

REG: Right! This calls for immediate discussion!

COMMANDO #1: Yeah.

JUDITH: What?!

COMMANDO #2: Immediate.

COMMANDO #1: Right.

LORETTA: New motion?

REG: Completely new motion, eh, that, ah-- that there be, ah, immediate action--

FRANCIS: Ah, once the vote has been taken.

REG: Well, obviously once the vote's been taken. You can't act another resolution till you've voted on it...

JUDITH: Reg, for God's sake, let's go now!

REG: Yeah. Yeah.

JUDITH: Please!

REG: Right. Right.

FRANCIS: Fine.

REG: In the-- in the light of fresh information from, ahh, sibling Judith--

LORETTA: Ah, not so fast, Reg.

JUDITH: Reg, for God's sake, it's perfectly simple. All you've got to do is to go out of that door now, and try to stop Rory nailing him up! Its happening, Reg! Something's actually happening, Reg! Can't you understand?! Ohhh! [slam]

REG: Hm. Hm.
 
Slab said:
I don’t doubt the good intentions of those that attended but I fear the ‘pace of play manual’ that’ll come out in the spring will contain nothing new except to restate what's been published numerous times on hundreds of websites/magazines/notice-boards and countless scorecards

Reading the BBC piece I’m reminded of the Life of Brian. Hope I’m wrong but might this have happened...



Scene 21


REG (R&A): Right. Now, uh, item four: attainment of faster pace of play within the next five years. Uh, Francis, you've been doing some work on this.

FRANCIS: Yeah. Thank you, Reg. Well, quite frankly, siblings, I think five years is optimistic, unless we can smash the 4hr round within the next twelve months.

REG: Twelve months?

FRANCIS: Yeah, twelve months. And, let's face it. As pace of play goes, this is the big one, so we've got to get up off our bums and stop just talking about it!

COMMANDOS: Hear! Hear!

LORETTA: I agree. It's action that counts, not words, and we need action now.

COMMANDOS: Hear! Hear!

REG: You're right. We could sit around here all day talking, passing resolutions, making clever speeches. It's not going to shift one player to move faster!

FRANCIS: So, let's just stop gabbing on about it. It's completely pointless and it's getting us nowhere!

COMMANDOS: Right!

LORETTA: I agree. This is a complete waste of time.

JUDITH: They've arrested Jordan Spieth!

REG: What?

COMMANDOS: What?

JUDITH: They've dragged him off! They're going to crucify him!

REG: Right! This calls for immediate discussion!

COMMANDO #1: Yeah.

JUDITH: What?!

COMMANDO #2: Immediate.

COMMANDO #1: Right.

LORETTA: New motion?

REG: Completely new motion, eh, that, ah-- that there be, ah, immediate action--

FRANCIS: Ah, once the vote has been taken.

REG: Well, obviously once the vote's been taken. You can't act another resolution till you've voted on it...

JUDITH: Reg, for God's sake, let's go now!

REG: Yeah. Yeah.

JUDITH: Please!

REG: Right. Right.

FRANCIS: Fine.

REG: In the-- in the light of fresh information from, ahh, sibling Judith--

LORETTA: Ah, not so fast, Reg.

JUDITH: Reg, for God's sake, it's perfectly simple. All you've got to do is to go out of that door now, and try to stop Rory nailing him up! Its happening, Reg! Something's actually happening, Reg! Can't you understand?! Ohhh! [slam]

REG: Hm. Hm.
Click to expand...

standing-ovation.gif
 
Rugby union brought in a rule where kickers had a minute to kick a penalty after the ball has been teed up. Surely something similar could be brought in for golf. If a group are falling back then the referee could time each player for a spell. From the moment it was their turn to play, bag down and arrive at the ball if first, they would have an agreed amount of time, eg 1 minute. Maybe then the endless deliberations, checking yardage charts, wind direction etc etc that they seem to need to check 5 times would be reduced. It is possible if the will is there.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Rugby union brought in a rule where kickers had a minute to kick a penalty after the ball has been teed up. Surely something similar could be brought in for golf. If a group are falling back then the referee could time each player for a spell. From the moment it was their turn to play, bag down and arrive at the ball if first, they would have an agreed amount of time, eg 1 minute. Maybe then the endless deliberations, checking yardage charts, wind direction etc etc that they seem to need to check 5 times would be reduced. It is possible if the will is there.
Click to expand...

I thought they had 45s to take a shot? I'm not a rules expert so happy to return undercover if wrong :D
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Rugby union brought in a rule where kickers had a minute to kick a penalty after the ball has been teed up. Surely something similar could be brought in for golf. If a group are falling back then the referee could time each player for a spell. From the moment it was their turn to play, bag down and arrive at the ball if first, they would have an agreed amount of time, eg 1 minute. Maybe then the endless deliberations, checking yardage charts, wind direction etc etc that they seem to need to check 5 times would be reduced. It is possible if the will is there.
Click to expand...

chrisd said:
My understanding is that they do have a stipulated time by which to play their shot
Click to expand...

Chris is correct, there are time limits in place but they are seldom (never) imposed. Can't remember what they are but the 1st player to reach his ball has xx seconds then the 2nd/3rd players have slightly less.
 
Golf is difficult, it's 18 holes, there's tree, bunkers, OOB, and water in the way, the ball lies differently nearly every time (above/ below feet, on a slope, there's 14 clubs - all different lengths & lofts, the weather makes a difference, the holes is small and the greens slope and run at different speeds.

It's difficult, and needs patience to play it.

I'm not slow, my grouping can generally go round in 3hrs but that depends on all sort of things. However, this year I've taken longer over my putts. This has added probably 9 minutes (say seconds per hole) to my round. My putts per holes has decreased from an average of 2.11 to 1.74. (This 6.6 stroke advantage hasn't translated in it's entirety as it seems my approach play is suffering).

I'm thinking I actually need to be more patient with my whole game, rather than faster - because it's difficult. Now, I know I'm not the problem but I've played with slow guys, and generally they play quite well - if they're sped up, their game suffers, and then it becomes less enjoyable.

Maybe it's as simple as, no one should take more than 4.5hours. You tee off at x time, when you sign your card at the end, insert time, if it's more than 4.5hrs, the committee can deduct a stroke for every 15mins over.
 
Something I have been saying ever since slow play was mentioned on here.

Losing shots and effectively losing the chance to win a tournament is the only way.

I disagree with the "form of cheating" if they go back to their PSR when no-ones around to time check.

The biggest problem I see is the implementing of penalty shots.

Would this be during the round? and if so there could be arguments on course slowing play down even more.

Could this be after the round?
Could this mean Caddies time keeping other players just in case their guy is picked up giving them a case against scenario.

Giving players a set time to play there shot once reaching their ball could be the way to go.

It will be interesting to see what actually does occur.
 
It doesn't take a genius to realise that very few players, US tour in particular, stick to 45 seconds for each shot. Not even close. Penalty shots are the answer, fines will not dent the guys on the US tour as it is so cash rich.
 
There's a part of me that thinks adding penalties (to a level that will have a meaningful impact on pace of play for the pros & act as a deterrent) will never happen

Who's going to be the one that actually gives say Spieth a couple o' penalty strokes that then means he loses a major by a shot

The golfing world would go into meltdown over it with opposing views on several sides but with only a very small group patting the R&A/PGA/ET on the back saying 'well done, maybe now they'll learn'
 
TBH i think having a caddie for some makes it worse. You would not believe some of the absolute rubbish conversations I'd heard between caddie and player, that took an age, then they did what they discussed first few sec anyway.

also the not playing till its your turn, doesn't mean you cant prepare while waiting. I saw a perfect an illustration of this a few weeks ago. its was Justin rose and another player (can't remember who lets call him player 2) Justin was about 10 yards further down the fairway. player 2 does though all the rigmarole, caddie pacing out the distance etc, discussing the shot, etc, etc. all the time Justin is just standing there watching. as soon as player 2 takes the shot after a good deal of messing around, Justin then starts his process.

this is not a pop at Justin, they all do it. could save a fair bit of time by cutting these sorts of things out.

With the am game, there is also something that has crept into society, which where no one or less people show consideration to others.
 
There was the incident at the Masters last year (year before?) when the young Chinese was docked a shot and it had no effect. The sooner that a big name player in contention is penalised the better, then the rest might start speeding up a bit.

Patrick's example above is the reason that the 2nd and 3rd players in a group get less time to hit their shots but it seems pretty ineffectual.
 
Give the caddies segways. They can buzz down and get things well under way and have a couple of options ready. Player chooses and hits.

A lot less faffing about.
 
patricks148 said:
I saw a perfect an illustration of this a few weeks ago. its was Justin rose and another player (can't remember who lets call him player 2) Justin was about 10 yards further down the fairway. player 2 does though all the rigmarole, caddie pacing out the distance etc, discussing the shot, etc, etc. all the time Justin is just standing there watching. as soon as player 2 takes the shot after a good deal of messing around, Justin then starts his process.
Click to expand...

Saw this in the ET last weekend, I couldn't believe the guy 20 yards up had to then go through the whole process once the guy behind had taken his shot. This is a an area that should be enforced, no reason I can think of that say 30 seconds after the guy behind has hit you hit yours.

Putting also, furthest away gets say 1 minute to look at the green when they arrive and pick the line etc, next person has 30 seconds once the ball is marked and so on. These two items alone would shave off 20 mins plus a round.
 
It isn't really as straight forward as giving them 45 seconds to hit.

Sometimes you see pros walking up to see the green and surveying the area. Thinking through a few options. Taking quite a few practice strokes to feel what they are attempting to do then playing a worldie shot.

We may lose some of this if strict time limits were enforced but I agree half the faff on straight forward shots needs to stop.
 
drive4show said:
Chris is correct, there are time limits in place but they are seldom (never) imposed. Can't remember what they are but the 1st player to reach his ball has xx seconds then the 2nd/3rd players have slightly less.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify for those that continue to get confused about this...

1. There is a set timing for every group to complete every hole at every tournament.
2. If a group fails to meet their timing they will be approached by a referee and be asked to make up the time within a set period. If they are unable to do so because of the group in front that group will be told first and then the subsequent group may be advised that they have been told and asked to ensure they keep up when the group in front speed up etc etc
3. If the group fails, in the opinion of the ref, to speed up their pace of play and they will be warned.
4. If they still don't do anything then either the entire group or, if it's a single player causing the delay, a player, will be put on the play clock and the designated shot timings will be applied and the player penalised if he exceeds them.

There is no point in penalising players for exceeding these times on shots when they aren't out of position - and this is where the TV coverage can be an issue. Some players like to take shot time but will walk very quickly and be ready to start their (long) routine such that they are actually ahead of their timing and effectively being held up.

However, as everyone who plays regularly will know, there's a fine line between keeping up well and rushing and needlessly pressing the group in front. Equally if everybody feels the need to have a 1m buffer the last group will be 18m out of their timing!

Generally penalties aren't applied because groups will meet the shot clock and catch up when put on it. Only inexperienced players tend to get caught out nowadays.
 
It's the culture among pros that needs to change. Players should be embarrassed by half of their antics.

No one really wants to rock the boat and straight up accuse others of being too slow.

The game is supposed to be built on respect yet players flout pace of play on a regular basis.

I'd love to see interviews after the round asking why it took so long and replies like 'yeah it was Jason taking all day out there'.

Then Jason saying 'yeah I need to speed up tomorrow, I was taking the piss today. Sorry. '
 
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