Provisional Ball in Matchplay

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I’ve had a brief delve in the rules but can’t find the answer to what seems a simple question. I’ll keep it simple and avoid all context.

In matchplay can I decide to play a provisional after my opponent has played his shot?

 

[Bratty]

Just to check something:
You have already hit your tee shot.
Your opponent has just hit their tee shot.
You now want to hit a provisional.

 

[doublebogey7]

I’ve had a brief delve in the rules but can’t find the answer to what seems a simple question. I’ll keep it simple and avoid all context.

In matchplay can I decide to play a provisional after my opponent has played his shot?

Assuming that your ball after your last shot may be lost outside of a PA or OOB, I don't see why you shouldn't, or am I missing something?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Assuming that your ball after your last shot may be lost outside of a PA or OOB, I don't see why you shouldn't, or am I missing something?

I hit my 2nd shot into grim knee-high deep stuff and while I thought about playing a provisional or putting another ball into play, my opponent - from a position close to me - hit his 3rd shot wide of the green leaving him with a tricky shot over a green side bunker. At that point I asked about me playing a provisional but his view was that as he’d played his shot and there had been maybe a few minutes since I’d played my shot, the match had ‘moved on’ and so I couldn’t. I didn’t argue.

But on reflection I’m wondering whether I could have insisted. Who knows…I might have stiffed my fourth (ignored my original and it remained unfound by my opponent if he’d chosen to look for it) and he’d have had to get up and down for a half.

 

[Colin L]

The only proviso in Rule 18.3 is that the announcement of a provisional ball must be made before the stroke [18.3b]. I think, however, we may need to tease out whose turn it was to play in relation to the spot from which your 2nd shot was played when your opponent played his 3rd shot.

 

[doublebogey7]

The only proviso in Rule 18.3 is that the announcement of a provisional ball must be made before the stroke [18.3b]. I think, however, we may need to tease out whose turn it was to play in relation to the spot from which your 2nd shot was played when your opponent played his 3rd shot.

Is it not a case of where his 2nd shot finished not where it was played from that determines the order of play for either a provisional or stroke & distance.

 

[Bratty]

Rule 6.4d suggests before anyone else has played.

 

[rulefan]

Is his ball nearer the hole than your original?

6.4a. Matchplay

• After Both Players Start a Hole.
  
  • The ball that is farther from the hole is to be played first.
  • If the balls are the same distance from the hole or their relative distances are not known, the ball to be played first is decided by agreement or by using a random method.

 

[doublebogey7]

Rule 6.4d suggests before anyone else has played.

Doesn't the last para allow the player to play to decide to play a provisional after the opponent has hit their second shot.

 

[Bratty]

Doesn't the last para allow the player to play to decide to play a provisional after the opponent has hit their second shot.

Well I wondered the same thing. I just thought I'd post the rule and let the debate begin!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I played my 2nd shot before my opponent played his 3rd (he being closer to the hole). Given where I’d hit my 2nd I’d thought about playing a provisional before he played, but it became a firm thought when I saw him play his 3rd wide of the green. Indeed the thought changed to include the possibility of putting another ball into play.

My opponent‘s thinking was something like that I shouldn’t be able to take advantage of his mistake ‘after the fact’ as it were - that if I were going to play a provisional I had to at least declare my intention to do so before he hit his 3rd shot.

He recognised that if I couldn’t find my ball I could go back and put another ball in play, so I don’t know what the difference would be, but he was pretty sure I couldn’t play a provisional…which seems illogical.

 

[Steven Rules]

It is a different scenario and set of specifics, but one of the principles underpinning Clarification 6.4c/1 is that player A may decide to play a provisional after player B has played.

 

[salfordlad]

It is a different scenario and set of specifics, but one of the principles underpinning Clarification 6.4c/1 is that player A may decide to play a provisional after player B has played.

I agree there is nothing preventing a PB being put in play here after the opponent hit.

 

[backwoodsman]

In my view (in line with the experts' opinions above) is that provisional ball is allowed. After all, even though the other player has played his shot, there's nothing in the OP's scenario that contradicts or negates the first bullet point of rule 18.3a - the rule about when a PB is allowed (In short, bullet point is that a PB is allowed provided a player's ball has not been found, but is not yet lost)

 

[Steven Rules]

Correct. A player may play a provisional ball any time up until the three minute search period has expired. (18.3a/2)

SILH's opponenent was incorrectly and unjustifiably obstructionist.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Correct. A player may play a provional ball any time up until the three minute search period has expired. (18.3a/2)

SILH's opponenent was incorrectly and unjustifiably obstructionist.

I hadn’t even started to look for it, it was over 150yds away.

I hit my shot (eeugh), we exchanged a couple of thoughts about where it had gone as we walked forward maybe 20yds to where his ball was, then I stood aside as he hit his. Short pause as I took in where his ball had finished, and I then asked if I could go back and play a provisional. I walked back to my divot mark at which point he made the ‘the game has moved on’ comment.

As it happens we halved in 6s…but you never know. And yes i know that whether I found my ball or not, i could always have gone back to where I’d played it from with the same effect.

 

[Steven Rules]

I hadn’t even started to look for it

As I said....any time up until the three minute search period has expired. This encompasses the period before the search has even begun.

he made the ‘the game has moved on’ comment

As I said....an incorrect and unjustifiable comment from a Rules perspective.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As I said....any time up until the three minute search period has expired. This encompasses the period before the search has even begun.

As I said....an incorrect and unjustifiable comment from a Rules perspective.

Just for clarity I know you do not mean the three minutes includes time taken to get to the search area.

 

[Steven Rules]

Hmmm. I might be overly sensitive but it hadn't even occurred to me that there would be doubt about that until you started selectively highlighting bits of my post and appending what I think was a fairly unnecessary editorial comment. Let me flesh it out a bit and expand on some of my pronouns so that I know that you know that I know what I mean:

[A provisional ball may be played] any time [from when the original ball is played] up until the three minute search period has expired. This [period during which the provisional may be played] encompasses [both] the period before the search has even begun [and the three minute search period].

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hmmm. I might be overly sensitive but it hadn't even occurred to me that there would be doubt about that until you started selectively highlighting bits of my post and appending what I think was a fairly unnecessary editorial comment. Let me flesh it out a bit and expand on some of my pronouns so that I know that you know that I know what I mean:

[A provisional ball may be played] any time [from when the original ball is played] up until the three minute search period has expired. This [period during which the provisional may be played] encompasses [both] the period before the search has even begun [and the three minute search period].

I apologise for any slight or irritation you feel by my pedantic comment, but we are surely allowed to be a bit pedantic in looking to eliminate ambiguity in interpretations and clarifications of rules. Of course I knew exactly what you meant and I thank you indeed for confirming my understanding of what happened in my provisional ball question…