jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Should pros be penalised shots for undue delay when they call in a ref for some basic rule advice?
e.g. When a ball is on a path where and how to drop.
e.g. When a ball is on a path where and how to drop.
Pros and the rules
- Thread starter jim8flog
- Start date
Neilds
Assistant Pro
When you have a raft of rules 'experts' on the TV/social media waiting to pounce, I would be making sure I got a referee to agree everything before I even picked the ball up.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
I don't think so but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to have like a VAR type ref that can be communicated to via your caddy (with a radio or something) if you need to ask a question. Might be a tad faster than a chap rolling round on a buggy
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
no
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
No, as they have been penalised into making doubly sure.
I think they shouldn't require the assistance so readily. perhaps it should be a case of if the PP's all agree a rule, carry on, without risk of penalty. At least for regular events.
Majors should have a ref on each hole, ready to make quick judgements.
I think they shouldn't require the assistance so readily. perhaps it should be a case of if the PP's all agree a rule, carry on, without risk of penalty. At least for regular events.
Majors should have a ref on each hole, ready to make quick judgements.
wjemather
Well-known member
No, but players (and their caddies) should be required to take a basic rules course and maybe pass a simple competence test before being allowed on tour.
Same applies to commentators - the level of ignorance at Sky Sports is truly astounding.
Same applies to commentators - the level of ignorance at Sky Sports is truly astounding.
Sats
Challenge Tour Pro
No, the chance of getting it wrong far outweighs the time to get a ref over.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
As TV viewers we don't get to see the whole picture.
There could be reasons why it's not as straightforward a drop as it may seem and we can't see it.
I'd rather they call a Ref over and get it right, costing a few minutes, than take a punt, get it wrong and either get a penalty or DQ.
As we've seen on here, those in the know can get things wrong from time to time.
There could be reasons why it's not as straightforward a drop as it may seem and we can't see it.
I'd rather they call a Ref over and get it right, costing a few minutes, than take a punt, get it wrong and either get a penalty or DQ.
As we've seen on here, those in the know can get things wrong from time to time.
bobmac
Major Champion
If the pro gets a rule wrong, it could cost him/her an awful lot of money.
If the ref gets a rule wrong, it costs the pro nothing.
I'd say the vast majority of times, the pro knows the rules, they just want conformation from the referee so if something does go wrong, the ref gets the blame
Does that happen in other sports?
If the ref gets a rule wrong, it costs the pro nothing.
I'd say the vast majority of times, the pro knows the rules, they just want conformation from the referee so if something does go wrong, the ref gets the blame
Does that happen in other sports?
wjemather
Well-known member
Not generally, but then golf is one of very few sports where players are expected to apply the rules, policing themselves and their playing partners.
However, I would still argue the same for any professional sport, especially for commentators, pundits, etc.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I cannot see this working....you only have to see how poorly folks on this forum describe rules incidents when they are trying to get "rulings", when they've got all the time in the world to construct their post and proof read it several times to make sure it makes sense, before hitting send, to realise that a pro, in the heat of competition, is likely to be equally poor at describing the situation....or, even potentially mis-describing it in order to get a favourable ruling.
I will now remove my cynics hat.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Not in my view. How many referees are situated around the course in top level professional events? A dozen or so, more? They might as well be used when there is an incident, and I imagine there is never one far away. I suspect the players must know the basic rules, but they want assurances due to course specific local rules, markings (just in case they are unsure the ball is out of bounds, or the green keepers had a different intention to the markings
), line of sights, etc. I'd imagine it is rare that any individual player has to call in a referee, per round anyway.At any rate, if we are going to penalise them for undue delay, there are probably a multiple number of other factors that contribute to their slow play more than getting a referees advice / confirmation on a ruling
Ian_George
Active member
I'd agree if 'chance' was changed to 'cost'!
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The thing is the committee at a pro tournament will not take info from phone ins etc.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Not in my view. How many referees are situated around the course in top level professional events? A dozen or so, more? They might as well be used when there is an incident, and I imagine there is never one far away. I suspect the players must know the basic rules, but they want assurances due to course specific local rules, markings (just in case they are unsure the ball is out of bounds, or the green keepers had a different intention to the markings
At any rate, if we are going to penalise them for undue delay, there are probably a multiple number of other factors that contribute to their slow play more than getting a referees advice / confirmation on a ruling
I did say basic rules.
Ian_George
Active member
I totally agree.
The role of a golf referee is different to that of referees in other sports! No other sport's referees springs to mind where they provide 'assistance' as they do in golf.
rulefan
Tour Winner
How many times do you see a Rugby Union ref warning flankers or others to keep onside at a scrum or maul?
Crow
Crow Person
An alternative would be to have a test at the start of each tournament, say 10 questions.
For every question they get wrong they have to add a stroke to their score.
That would soon increase the competitors' knowledge of the rules.
For every question they get wrong they have to add a stroke to their score.
That would soon increase the competitors' knowledge of the rules.
Ian_George
Active member
Nothing like the same 'assistance' (note the quotes in both posts). The golf one is instigated by the player, with the Ref providing options the Rules may provide, where appropriate; the Rugby one is instigated by the Ref - as a warning!
rulefan
Tour Winner
Not always.
Excerpt from R&A Guidance on Running a Competition
Referees
This raises the question of the referee’s ethical position when he sees a player about to break the Rules. The referee is not responsible for a player’s wilful breach of the Rules, but he certainly does have an obligation to advise players about the Rules. It would be contrary to the spirit of fair play if a referee failed to inform a player of his rights and obligations under the Rules and then penalised him for a breach that he could have prevented. The referee who tries to help players to avoid breaches of the Rules cannot be accused of favouring one player against the other, since he would act in the same manner towards any player and is, therefore, performing his duties impartially.
eg: If a player tees his ball ahead of the markers, draw his attention to it before he drives.
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