Professional Rankings

[Deleted member 15344]

Thing is, am pretty sure when the forum has been around this area before, there isn't anything from the owgr in the public domain - just a load of waffle from journalists. The owgr just aren't a transparent, open type of organisation unfortunately.

If the OWGR were run by just the PGAT and ET then you could understand the paranoia about LiV not getting points because of the tours but it’s not just them.

And going by evidence of any new tour getting points the period appears to be standard

But for me the stand out point is - LIV knew the events didn’t have ranking points when they started , they didn’t appear to be bothered by them , the players didn’t seem to be bothered by them as well. Then after a couple of events they all start complaining about them. If they were that worried then don’t go to LIV until they get the points issue sorted either way

 

[Deleted member 15344]

.

Even these articles illustrate the flexible nature of owgr guidelines. Seems like you're just googling and cherry-picking a few phrases that suit your agenda.

You are more than welcome to post anything to show that the criteria can be changed to suit tours if want

 

[Mel Smooth]

Mickelson isn't particulary arguing the point about whether LIV should or should not get OWGR points, he's trying to make the point that the TV money that the PGAT receives from CBS is based on a certain 'number' being achieved of the ranking of the players that are participating in each event. If that number drops below the target, then the TV revenue drops.
That's why they are stalling on giving points to LIV players, because as they drop, the ratings of the remaining players on the PGAT increase as they take those places of the LIV players - meaning Jay get's more money for his tour.
Essentially - they're corrupting the rankings of pro golfers for financial gain, if what Mickelson is saying is true. And it might well be, everything the PGAT has done has been focussed on getting as many highly ranked players into as many events as possible, which of course will push up the Field Rating.
Mickelson has asked for Monaghan to be brought to task on the matter, and claims he has verifiable evidence to back it up - but as far as I know, he's not been questioned over it - although he's been generally pretty tight lipped since LIV emerged...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Mickelson isn't particulary arguing the point about whether LIV should or should not get OWGR points, he's trying to make the point that the TV money that the PGAT receives from CBS is based on a certain 'number' being achieved of the ranking of the players that are participating in each event. If that number drops below the target, then the TV revenue drops.
That's why they are stalling on giving points to LIV players, because as they drop, the ratings of the remaining players on the PGAT increase as they take those places of the LIV players - meaning Jay get's more money for his tour.
Essentially - they're corrupting the rankings of pro golfers for financial gain, if what Mickelson is saying is true. And it might well be, everything the PGAT has done has been focussed on getting as many highly ranked players into as many events as possible, which of course will push up the Field Rating.
Mickelson has asked for Monaghan to be brought to task on the matter, and claims he has verifiable evidence to back it up - but as far as I know, he's not been questioned over it - although he's been generally pretty tight lipped since LIV emerged...

Sorry - are they saying that the PGAT are the ones stopping the LIV Tour getting points ?

Heck of a public accusation from Mickelson who has put his foot in it before ?


I’m guessing there is some proof of this and that the PGAT are able to override the 7 other committee members plus the chairman?


Why would Monahan be questioned on it when it’s not all down to him. There is a committee is there not ?

R&A , USGA , Masters Committee, USPGA - plus a few others make the decisions not just Monahan.

And Telly money based on the ranking points of players playing ?

Interesting to see that laid out somewhere as surely it’s more about the appeal of the players as opposed to their rankings - Woods for example is way down but viewers flock to him.

There are a number of other Telly companies beyond CBS

Will be interesting to see when Mickleson provides the evidence.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Phil, Pelley was resigned to some sort of Major allocation for LIV players that would give them a certain number of spots, the PGAT players a certain number of spots and so on. Why would the OWGR still need to exist if that was the case?
They will be working on an agreement that allows the LIV guys entry into the majors - and they need those players in there to retain the position of having the best players in the world at those events, while the OWGR is still maintained as a verifiable measurement of the 'strength' of the PGAT so they can meet their requirements with the TV deal - assuming Mickelson is correct. If he is, then that scenario adds up.
I'll stick my neck out here and say LIV players will have an allocation of places in Majors in 12 months time, but it won't be calculated using an across the board points system.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

View attachment 47594

Liv scenes as Phil frantically searches twitter for the answer

You’d think Phil would have learnt the rules before joining LIV

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, Pelley was resigned to some sort of Major allocation for LIV players that would give them a certain number of spots, the PGAT players a certain number of spots and so on. Why would the OWGR still need to exist if that was the case?
They will be working on an agreement that allows the LIV guys entry into the majors - and they need those players in there to retain the position of having the best players in the world at those events, while the OWGR is still maintained as a verifiable measurement of the 'strength' of the PGAT so they can meet their requirements with the TV deal - assuming Mickelson is correct. If he is, then that scenario adds up.
I'll stick my neck out here and say LIV players will have an allocation of places in Majors in 12 months time, but it won't be calculated using an across the board points system.

It’s not up to Pelly though

Are the likes of the R&A , USGA etc being ignored then ? These are the main players when it comes to the rankings not the PGAT

There has been zero talk of the majors changing their qualifying for the majors

I’ll be confident in saying that the qualification for the majors will stay the same and that the players playing in the majors will still be the best players in the world - the majors know that they will have the best players from LIV playing in them over the next 3 years because of exemptions so there is no need to have direct entry, and then if they are some of the best in the world they will show it in the majors and keep their exemptions

Every single LIV golfer has a way to play in the majors - Lahiri for example played in an Asian event to get ranking points and entry into the USPGA , the US Open will have qualifying tournaments for them to enter to qualify , The Open will have the same as well.

 

[Mel Smooth]

It’s not up to Pelly though

Are the likes of the R&A , USGA etc being ignored then ? These are the main players when it comes to the rankings not the PGAT

There has been zero talk of the majors changing their qualifying for the majors

I’ll be confident in saying that the qualification for the majors will stay the same and that the players playing in the majors will still be the best players in the world - the majors know that they will have the best players from LIV playing in them over the next 3 years because of exemptions so there is no need to have direct entry, and then if they are some of the best in the world they will show it in the majors and keep their exemptions

Every single LIV golfer has a way to play in the majors - Lahiri for example played in an Asian event to get ranking points and entry into the USPGA , the US Open will have qualifying tournaments for them to enter to qualify , The Open will have the same as well.

No it's not up to Pelley, but he and Monahan will be collectively arguing to keep OWGR points in place while meeting the demands of the Majors to make sure that the best players in LIV, have access to The Majors - and don't confuse that with the players that have exemptions - because that is not a long term solution.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No it's not up to Pelley, but he and Monahan will be collectively arguing to keep OWGR points in place while meeting the demands of the Majors to make sure that the best players in LIV, have access to The Majors - and don't confuse that with the players that have exemptions - because that is not a long term solution.

Ranking points aren’t going to stop - I’ll be more than confident of that

LIV will make some changes and they will get some level of ranking points relative to the competitions they play. It won’t be the same level as the main tours.

It’s not some conspiracy by the tours - they don’t control the OWGR.

The majors are fully aware of the pathways for the tours and what they do, they aren’t going to do any favours for a near closed shop tour. A tour that could collapse at any time due to it being unsustainable.

 

[IanM]

You’d think Phil would have learnt the rules before joining LIV

He stopped reading when he got to the full stop after the Dollar Sign!

 

[Mel Smooth]

https://x.com/daniel_rapaport/status/1713930649436840329?s=46&t=ohmLQATVbQEjZ3yd-oBmxA

 

[SteveW86]

https://x.com/daniel_rapaport/status/1713930649436840329?s=46&t=ohmLQATVbQEjZ3yd-oBmxA

Well it makes perfect sense, as you dont get any points for playing on LIV. As he hasnt played any (?) events where he would get points its pretty obvious he would fall down the rankings really. But I dont think we need to have the discussion over whether or not LIV should get points anywhere other than the LIV thread really.

It would also be great if we (everyone) could put some detail in a post, rather than just a link to go an read at article/twitter post somewhere else.

 

[Swango1980]

https://x.com/daniel_rapaport/status/1713930649436840329?s=46&t=ohmLQATVbQEjZ3yd-oBmxA

Last year I won my clubs Order of Merit, yet it did absolutely nothing in raising my world ranking. Make it make sense

 

[Mel Smooth]

Well it makes perfect sense, as you dont get any points for playing on LIV. As he hasnt played any (?) events where he would get points its pretty obvious he would fall down the rankings really. But I dont think we need to have the discussion over whether or not LIV should get points anywhere other than the LIV thread really.

It would also be great if we (everyone) could put some detail in a post, rather than just a link to go an read at article/twitter post somewhere else.

I intentionally posted without comment.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Crying my eyes out here for someone who's made a cool $33 million dollars in prize money in a year, knowing full well that if he signed for LIV, there wouldn't be any ranking points coming his way. Poor bastard.

 

[SteveW86]

I intentionally posted without comment.

for what benefit?

 

[wjemather]

Last year I won my clubs Order of Merit, yet it did absolutely nothing in raising my world ranking. Make it make sense

Maybe you can figure it out?

"The objective of OWGR is to devise, maintain, review, update, administer and promote the recognition of a system that fairly ranks the relative performances of male professional golfers participating in the leading golf tournaments throughout the world."

 

[Mel Smooth]

Is Talor Gooch outside of the top 200 players in the world?

If LIV had NEVER existed, and Gooch had stayed on the PGAT, competing alongside those top PGAT members as listed in the tweet, over 14 events, and finished ahead of ALL of them on aggregate over those 14 events, woukd he be 201st in the rankings, or would be be top 50?
Please try and answer with honesty and integrity, we don’t need any if my Aunty had testicles type comments.
I appreciate it’s a hypothetical question, if you believe that he would still be below all those players, can you add your reasoning.

 

[SteveW86]

Is Talor Gooch outside of the top 200 players in the world?

If LIV had NEVER existed, and Gooch had stayed on the PGAT, competing alongside those top PGAT members as listed in the tweet, over 14 events, and finished ahead of ALL of them on aggregate over those 14 events, woukd he be 201st in the rankings, or would be be top 50?
Please try and answer with honesty and integrity, we don’t need any if my Aunty had testicles type comments.
I appreciate it’s a hypothetical question, if you believe that he would still be below all those players, can you add your reasoning.

If any of the LIV players had stayed on the PGA Tour, won 3 events and finished top of the order of merit they would comfortably be in the top 50, I dont think anybody could doubt that.

BUT, thats not the point is it. They made the choice to leave the recognised tour, when they left they knew LIV didnt qualify for ranking points and they should live with that decision. If they dont like it, leave LIV and rejoin the PGA tour, or whichever tour they choose to play on. We cant have any sympathy for them, very few people playing on LIV would have a shot at winning a major, they and the rest of the players are winning far more money than they ever were before and no doubt their lives are much more comfortable now.

 

[SteveW86]

Maybe you can figure it out?

"The objective of OWGR is to devise, maintain, review, update, administer and promote the recognition of a system that fairly ranks the relative performances of male professional golfers participating in the leading golf tournaments throughout the world."

Think you have conveniently missed out the part of the mission statement that includes the word eligible.