Professional Rankings

[wjemather]

Can you please point out the untruths, as I try to do from the other purspective rathar than just stated is as if it was a fact. I would could then either defend or correct the record. maybe though this wasn't aimed at me and I am just paranoid .

In your previous post, you stated there was a "12 month application period" for owgr and that LIV "remains a wholly invitation tour". The first statement is only partially true, the second is untrue.

 

[doublebogey7]

In your previous post, you stated there was a "12 month application period" for owgr and that LIV "remains a wholly invitation tour". The first statement is only partially true, the second is untrue.

You need to explain both those statements. As far as I understand it the criteria for OWGR points includes the need to have been established for at least 12 months.

In what way is the LiV your not currently invitation only. My understanding from everything I've seen written you may only play if invited. I understand that LiV are proposing limited route via qualification, but that doesn't come in until next year.

 

[BubbaP]

You need to explain both those statements. As far as I understand it the criteria for OWGR points includes the need to have been established for at least 12 months.

In what way is the LiV your not currently invitation only. My understanding from everything I've seen written you may only play if invited. I understand that LiV are proposing limited route via qualification, but that doesn't come in until next year.

Small acorns, but .
.
2022

Scott Vincent wins at Slaley Hall as Travis Smyth earns LIV Invitational spot

Zimbabwe's Scott Vincent secured back-to-back wins with victory in the International Series England, the first Asian Tour event to be staged in the UK.

www.skysports.com

2023

Asian Tour Player Qualifies For LIV Golf League

Scott Vincent will be joining the LIV Golf League next season after claiming the International Series Order of Merit

www.golfmonthly.com

 

[wjemather]

You need to explain both those statements. As far as I understand it the criteria for OWGR points includes the need to have been established for at least 12 months.

In what way is the LiV your not currently invitation only. My understanding from everything I've seen written you may only play if invited. I understand that LiV are proposing limited route via qualification, but that doesn't come in until next year.

It may seem pedantic, but demonstrating compliance with certain criteria for 12 months is not the same as having a 12 month application period. (To illustrate the difference: a tour in compliance for several years would immediately meet the 12 months upon application.) Additionally, it's been reported that the owgr board has discretion to accept or refuse applications regardless of whether all of the criteria in the guidelines have been met, or not; so the 12 months is not an absolute requirement anyway (neither are the other criteria).

LIV has had a number qualifiers from the Asian Tour International Series ever since the first event at Centurion (when there were 5 of them). The winner of IS England also qualified for the entire first season, and the top 3 on the ATIS Order of Merit after Korea qualified for LIV Boston onwards. Sihwan Kim and Scott Vincent qualified for this season by winning the AT and ATIS orders of merit respectively; while other players lost their place on LIV by finishing down the standings last year.

 

[doublebogey7]

It may seem pedantic, but demonstrating compliance with certain criteria for 12 months is not the same as having a 12 month application period. (To illustrate the difference: a tour in compliance for several years would immediately meet the 12 months upon application.) Additionally, the owgr board has discretion to accept or refuse applications regardless of whether all of the criteria in the guidelines have been met, or not; so the 12 months is not an absolute requirement anyway (neither are the other criteria).

LIV has had a number qualifiers from the Asian Tour International Series ever since the first event at Centurion (when there were 5 of them). The winner of IS England also qualified for the entire first season, and the top 3 on the ATIS Order of Merit after Korea qualified for LIV Boston onwards. Sihwan Kim and Scott Vincent qualified for this season by winning the AT and ATIS orders of merit respectively; while other players lost their place on LIV by finishing down the standings last year.

Pedantic is an understatement, I look forward to hearing the same in regards statements by those criticising other tours. In any case it would be the very first time a tour had been granted points in less than a dozen events for a tour that fails to meet so many of the published criteria. This would most obviously mean other tours and not just the big two calling foul.

Happy to correct the record in the full invitation statement, though I can show you a number of articles where it stared qualification was only to be introduced in 2024.

Never the less that leaves in excess of 80% of LiV players gaining their participation by invitation. Cant see OWGR going for that.

 

[wjemather]

Pedantic is an understatement, I look forward to hearing the same in regards statements by those criticising other tours. In any case it would be the very first time a tour had been granted points in less than a dozen events for a tour that fails to meet so many of the published criteria. This would most obviously mean other tours and not just the big two calling foul.

Happy to correct the record in the full invitation statement, though I can show you a number of articles where it stared qualification was only to be introduced in 2024.

Never the less that leaves in excess of 80% of LiV players gaining their participation by invitation. Cant see OWGR going for that.

Well, it has been a while since there has been a new tour which does not operate as a development tour feeding into a higher level tour, so the approach has to be different because some of the guidelines simply cannot apply.

I suspect 2024 relates to the introduction of a qualifying tournament, rather than qualification in general.

Many (if not most) players do not have long multi-year contracts that extend beyond this season and as such will need to avoid finishing near the bottom of the points standings to retain their place. Contracted players won't have such worries; but this is not entirely dissimilar to how some exemptions work on other tours.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well, it has been a while since there has been a new tour which does not operate as a development tour feeding into a higher level tour, so the approach has to be different because some of the guidelines simply cannot apply.

I suspect 2024 relates to the introduction of a qualifying tournament, rather than qualification in general.

Many (if not most) players do not have long multi-year contracts that extend beyond this season and as such will need to avoid finishing near the bottom of the points standings to retain their place. Contracted players won't have such worries; but this is not entirely dissimilar to how some exemptions work on other tours.

There doesn’t seem to be any desire from the OWGR to change any approach , LIV are clearly not going to change how they work so I can’t see how LIV events can get ranking points

But Greg Norman and Co surely knew the situation before they started the tour , the players knew the situation - why do they expect things to change

Were they told that it would change or did they think change could be bought or bullied into

There is a constant talk from them about rankings points as if it’s all a surprise to them that they don’t get them. Not sure why when the criteria to gain points is clearly laid out

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Greg is so arrogant that he probably thought everyone would bow to his greatness and give him what he wanted. I very much suspect he has made promises to players that he has no control over.

They was a lot of talk about points being given to LiV after the masters.

There was a lot of talk about ranking points not being important. Yet they are being brought up again.

Realistically, there are 5 or 6 LiV players that are of interest, and improve the quality of field in majors. They are already exempt. By the time their exemptions run out, they will be in the twilight of their careers. The rest of the LiV lot aren’t worth thinking about when it comes to the majors.

Does anyone really want to see Gooch or Varner play? Nope, didn’t think so.

 

[Newtonuti]

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey LiV vs the world thread again!

 

[Mel Smooth]

Greg is so arrogant that he probably thought everyone would bow to his greatness and give him what he wanted. I very much suspect he has made promises to players that he has no control over.



Realistically, there are 5 or 6 LiV players that are of interest, and improve the quality of field in majors. They are already exempt. By the time their exemptions run out, they will be in the twilight of their careers. The rest of the LiV lot aren’t worth thinking about when it comes to the majors.

Does anyone really want to see Gooch or Varner play? Nope, didn’t think so.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Pass me the popcorn. Phil is doing his thing on Twitter….

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653021956675862528

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Pass me the popcorn. Phil is doing his thing on Twitter….

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653021956675862528

LIV know the process to gain OWGR points , they knew it before the tour started

The players knew that all the events wouldn’t have ranking points

Not sure why they keep crying about them , they can’t bully their way to make the governing bodies change to suit LIV

The OWGR is more than just Jay Monahan - there are 7 other members on the committee and not sure what the Telly money has to do with anything. Guess not the first time Mickleson has dribbled nonsense

 

[wjemather]

LIV know the process to gain OWGR points , they knew it before the tour started

The players knew that all the events wouldn’t have ranking points

Not sure why they keep crying about them , they can’t bully their way to make the governing bodies change to suit LIV

The OWGR is more than just Jay Monahan - there are 7 other members on the committee and not sure what the Telly money has to do with anything. Guess not the first time Mickleson has dribbled nonsense

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652955290185105408

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652955290185105408

so if Mickleson says it’s not correct then it’s gospel is it ? A man who has lied before yes ?

What’s not correct

There is a specific set of criteria laid out to gain ranking points and LIV don’t meet those currently

 

[wjemather]

so if Mickleson says it’s not correct then it’s gospel is it ? A man who has lied before yes ?

What’s not correct

There is a specific set of criteria laid out to gain ranking points and LIV don’t meet those currently

Here you go again - persisting with the fallacy that the owgr criteria are hard and fast rules that LIV must meet. [Insert what the other Phil said here]

Meeting all, some or none of the criteria in the owgr guidelines (not rules) provides no indication whatsoever that the board will approve or decline an application. This was well covered in the media last year - feel free to do some research.

 

[PJ87]

Here you go again - persisting with the fallacy that the owgr criteria are hard and fast rules that LIV must meet. [Insert what the other Phil said here]

Meeting all, some or none of the criteria in the owgr guidelines (not rules) provides no indication whatsoever that the board will approve or decline an application. This was well covered in the media last year - feel free to do some research.

Liv scenes as Phil frantically searches twitter for the answer

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Here you go again - persisting with the fallacy that the owgr criteria are hard and fast rules that LIV must meet. [Insert what the other Phil said here]

Meeting all, some or none of the criteria in the owgr guidelines (not rules) provides no indication whatsoever that the board will approve or decline an application. This was well covered in the media last year - feel free to do some research.

LIV Golf’s path to OWGR points became clearer Wednesday, but they might not like it

The Official World Golf Ranking announced Wednesday a new tour would begin receiving points. Just not the tour we were expecting.

golf.com

“
The OWGR board typically requires one to two years between receiving an application for world ranking points and then rewarding players in its events with those points.”


So how long since LIV applied for ranking points ?

What is Stopping LIV Golf From Earning World Ranking Points

All 50 golfers currently signed to LIV Golf have written to Peter Dawson, chairman of the Official World Golf Rankings board, demanding that they be awarded ranking points. But what is stopping the new circuit from being eligible for points? There are several established criteria that it must meet.

www.golfshake.com

What Stops LIV Golf From Earning Points?​

For starters, to qualify for ranking points a tour must have a schedule at least 10 tournaments - LIV Golf falls short of that this year, although the schedule will be extended to 14 events in 2023.

Furthermore, LIV Golf’s events are staged over 54 holes. OWGR rules state that to qualify for ranking points, tournaments should be contested over 72 holes, apart from developmental tours (like the Abema TV Tour, the Alps Golf Tour, or the EuroPro Tour, among others), which are permitted to be played over 54 holes.

The rules also say that there should be an open annual qualifying school held before the start of each season, a field size on average of 75 players over the course of a season (LIV events have 48-man fields), there should be a 36-hole cut, whether playing 54 or 72 holes (there are no cuts in LIV Golf). There should be a clear opportunity to progress to a full member tour, that is, to one of the six members of the International Federation of PGA Tours, and, finally, there should be reasonable access for local and regional players (i.e. Monday qualifiers) at each of its tournaments.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

View attachment 47594

Liv scenes as Phil frantically searches twitter for the answer

Let’s be fair. That’s no different to Mel and the other chap who seems to be working for the LiV marketing department.

In reality, not many people know the truth, and even fewer actually care.

 

[BubbaP]

so if Mickleson says it’s not correct then it’s gospel is it ? A man who has lied before yes ?

What’s not correct

There is a specific set of criteria laid out to gain ranking points and LIV don’t meet those currently

Thing is, am pretty sure when the forum has been around this area before, there isn't anything from the owgr in the public domain - just a load of waffle from journalists. The owgr just aren't a transparent, open type of organisation unfortunately.
On balance Phil M is probably wrong but it is hard to be clear on it.

 

[wjemather]

.

LIV Golf’s path to OWGR points became clearer Wednesday, but they might not like it

The Official World Golf Ranking announced Wednesday a new tour would begin receiving points. Just not the tour we were expecting.

golf.com

“
The OWGR board typically requires one to two years between receiving an application for world ranking points and then rewarding players in its events with those points.”


So how long since LIV applied for ranking points ?

What is Stopping LIV Golf From Earning World Ranking Points

All 50 golfers currently signed to LIV Golf have written to Peter Dawson, chairman of the Official World Golf Rankings board, demanding that they be awarded ranking points. But what is stopping the new circuit from being eligible for points? There are several established criteria that it must meet.

www.golfshake.com

What Stops LIV Golf From Earning Points?​

For starters, to qualify for ranking points a tour must have a schedule at least 10 tournaments - LIV Golf falls short of that this year, although the schedule will be extended to 14 events in 2023.

Furthermore, LIV Golf’s events are staged over 54 holes. OWGR rules state that to qualify for ranking points, tournaments should be contested over 72 holes, apart from developmental tours (like the Abema TV Tour, the Alps Golf Tour, or the EuroPro Tour, among others), which are permitted to be played over 54 holes.

The rules also say that there should be an open annual qualifying school held before the start of each season, a field size on average of 75 players over the course of a season (LIV events have 48-man fields), there should be a 36-hole cut, whether playing 54 or 72 holes (there are no cuts in LIV Golf). There should be a clear opportunity to progress to a full member tour, that is, to one of the six members of the International Federation of PGA Tours, and, finally, there should be reasonable access for local and regional players (i.e. Monday qualifiers) at each of its tournaments.

Even these articles illustrate the flexible nature of owgr guidelines. Seems like you're just googling and cherry-picking a few phrases that suit your agenda.