Professional Rankings

[Mel Smooth]

The Hero has a much better field than the Euro tour champs

I’m sure it does, but the field rating is similar, and doesn’t correlate with the points awarded for winning. 33 players in the Hero, we were being told a small field was limiting the points awarded in the DPWT championship, which is fine, the same will apply to LIV when they get points. But now this weekend the PGAT is getting strong points again?

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I took the attached couple of screen shots of Ryan Fox and Rory DP record for the season before Rahm won. The stats speak for themself really and back up your thoughts.

Don't they showed a mixed argument, i.e. Ryan Fox should be higher up due to wins which would support more points for bigger fields, but that Rory won it as he placed regularly in the bigger events with key players. I've got to say apart from Cam and DJ which is Liv's fault, i think we generally get the best players at the top of the rankings.

 

[doublebogey7]

I took the attached couple of screen shots of Ryan Fox and Rory DP record for the season before Rahm won. The stats speak for themself really and back up your thoughts.

You are comparing apples to oranges there. If it was purely down to wins, I am guessing someone like Australia rather than Brazil would be top of the FIFA rankings. As with football so much depends on who you are competing against.

 

[BubbaP]

You are comparing apples to oranges there. If it was purely down to wins, I am guessing someone like Australia rather than Brazil would be top of the FIFA rankings. As with football so much depends on who you are competing against.

To continue your analogy though, could argue Fox played against all the (many) teams and McIlroy just a few

 

[cleveland52]

I think it's great...lots of points for the big names in America, who are playing big events. Fewer points for the lesser players in Europe, playing lower level comps, and none for the LIV players, who abandoned their right to points!

Correct! As it should be. Points are accumulated over a rolling two year period.

Nothing wrong with the system. Based on math, not emotions.

 

[BubbaP]

Before things move on, wanted to revisit the events with no cut. I don't have an issue if there is no cut (IMO they originally existed to increase the prizes), but I do have an issue with giving points to every player.
Last week it was Fleetwood (was Spieth last year) who received an invite. He beat no-one, was several over par, but still walked away with more ranking points than players elsewhere who finished ahead of hundreds of others (obviously lower ranked players but still beat majorityof large field).
That just doesn't seem right to me. Surely they need to pick a %, and only players finishing above that % receive points.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Is there anybody left in the world of gold that thinks the OWGR is now accurate?

Luke Donald now making the same point that many others have.

They Need To Fix It' - Donald On OWGR Ryder Cup Headache | Golf Monthly

 

[Jacko_G]

World ranking points have always been skewed and sadly while European Golf is undervalued by the incumbents that currently run it, it will continue to fall further behind.

The World Rankings are a complete farce. Any top ten that doesn't include DJ and Cam Smith (who will drop out) is not worth the paper its written on.

 

[Mel Smooth]

World ranking points have always been skewed and sadly while European Golf is undervalued by the incumbents that currently run it, it will continue to fall further behind.

The World Rankings are a complete farce. Any top ten that doesn't include DJ and Cam Smith (who will drop out) is not worth the paper its written on.

In fairness, Cam is still sitting in 3rd, even though he hasn't hardly played - for me, that's not right. Nor is Rory sitting at the top of the rankings, while he's not playing while Rahm is tearing it up everywhere he plays.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

World ranking points have always been skewed and sadly while European Golf is undervalued by the incumbents that currently run it, it will continue to fall further behind.

The World Rankings are a complete farce. Any top ten that doesn't include DJ and Cam Smith (who will drop out) is not worth the paper its written on.

Interesting that you say these 2 should be in the top 10. Smith has spent most of his career outside the top 10 and was well outside it at the start of last season, then had a mega season. If he’d carried on that form, and there was nothing to suggest he wouldn’t, then he’s a top 10 player.

DJ on the other hand has been on the slide for a while. He wasn’t in the top 10 before jumping to LiV, 15th if I recall. And whilst he played well and won a LiV event, he hardly dominated against a weak field. So there is absolutely nothing to suggest he is still a top 10 player.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It’s going to be impossible to get a system that everyone will think is perfect

Previously the points went with the players and people said it was wrong

Have always said that tour events should always have the same level of points if playing the same level of tournament

I’m sure they will work out a way to sort it

 

[Deleted member 29109]

It’s going to be impossible to get a system that everyone will think is perfect

Previously the points went with the players and people said it was wrong

Have always said that tour events should always have the same level of points if playing the same level of tournament

I’m sure they will work out a way to sort it

How do you define the level of event though?

We’ll start to see who is best as the top players are playing together in more events this year.

For all Rhams complaining, how many of his recent good finishes have been against top heavy fields? His last one was obviously. Genuinely I don’t know.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Surely the purpose of the OWGR is to protect the supremacy of the PGA Tour.

 

[Jacko_G]

Interesting that you say these 2 should be in the top 10. Smith has spent most of his career outside the top 10 and was well outside it at the start of last season, then had a mega season. If he’d carried on that form, and there was nothing to suggest he wouldn’t, then he’s a top 10 player.

DJ on the other hand has been on the slide for a while. He wasn’t in the top 10 before jumping to LiV, 15th if I recall. And whilst he played well and won a LiV event, he hardly dominated against a weak field. So there is absolutely nothing to suggest he is still a top 10 player.

DJ is comfortably a top 5 player and gad long spells out injured. That guy has so much talent it's frightening.

(my opinion obviously)

 

[doublebogey7]

It’s going to be impossible to get a system that everyone will think is perfect

Previously the points went with the players and people said it was wrong

Have always said that tour events should always have the same level of points if playing the same level of tournament

I’m sure they will work out a way to sort it

So how would you measure same level of Tournament.

As far as I can see that is what the system is attempting to do by giving ranking based on the current world rankings of the competitor's and the size of the field.

As you say whatevwer system is in place no one will thinkit perfect and I suspect had it not been for LiV there would be no more complaints than their EVER WAS.

Most of those commenting on this sight Rahm's recent performances, but of his three recent wins two have been in small fields and the third in any event with only a handfull of the top 100 playing. In that time he has progressed from 6th to 4th. In last year's majors he finished 4th teice against those now above him in the rankings twice and in the other two he beat just 1 player in each. Most people acknowledge these are the events in which golfers should be measured.

 

[BubbaP]

I've been generally supportive of the changes they tried to introduce, but also feel like they more tweaking is needed.
Not sure it will be "twice as easy" to win the HSBC this week verses the American Express

 

[doublebogey7]

I've been generally supportive of the changes they tried to introduce, but also feel like they more tweaking is needed.
Not sure it will be "twice as easy" to win the HSBC this week verses the American Express

I assume then the points for winning the HSBC are half that of the AE, which means to have recieved a similar number of points in the USA Perez would have to finish 2nd. I am not saying he could not have have done so, but I would say it is unlikley. So I would agree the points for winning those events if anything favours the DPWT, where I would agree the total points available in the PGAT should not be double those on the DPWT.

All this does is to highlight my view that nearly twice the points for the winner over second place is an excessive premium for winning. I know the common view is that winning on any tour is difficult (which it is). I would say being consistent across the season is significantly harder, but winning is more highly rewarded by the OWGR.

 

[BubbaP]

I assume then the points for winning the HSBC are half that of the AE, which means to have recieved a similar number of points in the USA Perez would have to finish 2nd. I am not saying he could not have have done so, but I would say it is unlikley. So I would agree the points for winning those events if anything favours the DPWT, where I would agree the total points available in the PGAT should not be double those on the DPWT.

All this does is to highlight my view that nearly twice the points for the winner over second place is an excessive premium for winning. I know the common view is that winning on any tour is difficult (which it is). I would say being consistent across the season is significantly harder, but winning is more highly rewarded by the OWGR.

Yeah, and these posts kind of highlight the challenge for any system - lots of different views and probably none of them 'wrong'.

On the subject of first place points, for me the following isn't a great look for the owgr. They believe they have a robust system for calculating the points, but then they introduce 'overrides' which could cast doubts on their system.

If @MarkT is still about, might be a topic for discussion.
Why not just trust the system to derive?
It could easily be viewed as protectionism or manipulation...

‐‐-----------------------------
First place points

Major Championships: The four Major Championships: the Masters Tournament, PGA Championship, U.S. Open Championship and the Open Championship are rated separately and awarded 100 First Place Points.

The Players Championship: The Players Championship is rated separately and awarded 80 First Place Points.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yeah, and these posts kind of highlight the challenge for any system - lots of different views and probably none of them 'wrong'.

On the subject of first place points, for me the following isn't a great look for the owgr. They believe they have a robust system for calculating the points, but then they introduce 'overrides' which could cast doubts on their system.

If @MarkT is still about, might be a topic for discussion.
Why not just trust the system to derive?
It could easily be viewed as protectionism or manipulation...

‐‐-----------------------------
First place points

Major Championships: The four Major Championships: the Masters Tournament, PGA Championship, U.S. Open Championship and the Open Championship are rated separately and awarded 100 First Place Points.

The Players Championship: The Players Championship is rated separately and awarded 80 First Place Points.

While personally not disagreeing with you, I believe there would be a much bigger outcry if winners of the Majors were not awarded more points than the other high quality full field events. Which further highlights why this is so difficult to get right.

 

[Imurg]

The old system, I seem to remember, used the number of players in the top 100 or 200 and worked out the points based on strength of field...
So The Players would have a lot of points as it's always a very strong field...the Malta Open..not so much..
I cant remember why they changed it.....
But, as has been said, no system will be embraced by everyone but the current one needs fixing.