Problems joining new club

[welshjim22]

I am currently thinking about switching clubs. I currently play at a very good and friendly nine hole course. However, the local 18 hole course (others are 12 to 15 miles away)has just dropped its joining fee and has now become affordable. The problem is i have heard quite a few negative comments about the club itself, not the course. Very stuffy and more of an old mans club. I approached the club last week and was given an application form to complete, get countersigned by two members ( i only know one who isn't playing much of late), told i would have to have an interview and play a round with a member to see if i am good enough. However, it now appears i have to play three games with members and the first persoon to countersign my application has to attend the interview as well. This may sound normal but too me this is a little over the top just to play golf. Enough to make me have second thoughts about joining really. further more only the day after i played at my home course with a chap who had been refused membership of the local 18 hole course two or three months ago as he wasn't good enough, he wasn't that bad last week mind you. We both were in the mid twenties over par on temporary greens. He also told me that when he played the round of golf to join, the member he was with came up to him and asked to see under his jacket to see if his shirt was tucked in.

How common is having an interview and playing with a member prior to being accepted to join a club? Maybe i should stay put.

 

[Doh]

The fact that they have dropped the joining fee says they are short of members and are desperate to recruit. Having an interview is normal and it works both ways it's your oppotunity to see if the club suits your needs to.

Playing with a member just may be their way of introducing people to the club. Dont belive all the rumours you hear go have your interview ask lots of questions then you make your mind up if you want to join.

Dont for get your the customer they want your money

 

[Twire]

My present club used to interveiw, but droped that part just before I joined (But I did need to be proposed and seconded by 2 long standing members by letter). After waiting 5 years, I finaly got the letter i'd been waiting for, an invitation to join, but also an invitation to play with some commity members. This I wasn't looking forward to, as this club can sometimes be veiwed as a little old fashioned. I shouldn't have worried, we started off with a coffee, 9 holes of golf, then another coffee and sandwiches. All it was for, was an introduction to the club, and for me to ask questions.

If I were you i'd try not to read to much into it. What it will also do, is give you an insight into the club to see if you would like to join.

 

[USER1999]

Interviews are fairly common, as is the proposing and seconding bit, although there is often a work around. The playing with a member shouldn't really be a worry, it is more about saying the right things, being a nice guy to play with, mending pitchmarks, not practice swinging on the tee, etc. It just checks that you are a 'golfer' not just a golfer.

If you get in, there will be all sorts of members. You can't find 700 identical twits and put them all in one club. There is bound to be a cross section of society, and somewhere there will be a core bunch of good guys to play with, you just need to find them.

 

[slugger]

Sounds like you should just go for it, but...

i wouldn't join a club like that. it all sounds a bit stuck in the past to me. if i had to worry about wether my shirt was tucked in!!! it sounds like being back at school!

the club i'm a member of allows any dress code, as long as you respect your fellow members. as a whole, the club is very relaxed and full of normal guys enjoying their golf. And membership is full.

 

[USER1999]

We had a poll recently, and the dress code was overwhelmingly supported. I guess this makes us snobby.

Actually, I am happy with that. I think to play a sport (questionable description, I know), you dress appropriately for it. In this case, polo (tucked in), and proper trousers. I don't want to play in jeans and a wife beater, in the same way I wouldn't play tennis in jeans either. I wouldn't go swimming in horse riding kit, or jogging in a wet suit.

If I want to play like a golfer, I need to feel like a golfer, and that does start with looking like a golfer.

Oddly, the kit most of the pro's wear meets the dress code of most clubs. What'd wrong with that?

 

[Parmo]

I had an "interivew" so to speak the other week, it was more like an informal chat about the club, what I wanted and the comps really, the course doesnt have a dress code being a municipal, neither does the clubhouse but I always wear either chinos & polo or sweater.

Basically I look like I am about to step onto the first tee walking around Sainsburys on a weekend, so going to the club house I make extra effort.

That said there are only 150 playing members*, which 40 usual enter comps compared to 15-20 years ago when there was 500+, but golf then was the domain of the middle and upper classes and the municipal was left to the working men and many people can now afford memberships with the added number of courses been built.

*the course is council but the club is private so the comm have little say in the course.

 

[RGuk]

welshjim,

I joined a club once that had the worst reputation in the city. I had to play "on probation" for 6 months and attend two interviews, one to get started and one to join with the approval of two members, after the 6 months. It was because I didn't have an esteemed member to "sponsor" my application.

It all worked out really well and my time there was great! I'm not quite run-of-the-mill working class (if it exists these days) but will happily mix with princes and paupers, as it were.

There were a few members I avoided pairing up with but I soon found some great playing partners and didn't regret joining. The "ties in the clubhouse" bit drove me mad, but the sense of playing somewhere special (good course) and the impeccable course and social manners all worked out rather well. Get most folk on the course and they just want to have fun and play golf; if you can live with the rest, go for it!

 

[DCB]

welshjim22,

I think you have actually decided what your response is going to be. You have a very negative attitude towards this club and its process for introducing new members.

Try and look at it from the clubs point of view. It needs new members or it will die ! It has removed the Joining Fee, this alone could open the flood gates for anyone who can rustle up a bag of clubs and who can hold the club at the right end.

The club are trying to maintain some control over the prospective members they are admitting. A proposer and seconder have been pre-requisites for the clubs I have been a member of over the pat 30 years or so. Generally an interview is only held if the applicant hasn't got two proposers etc. The club makes its own rules. If this process puts you off what else might you find if and when you actually join.

You need to ask yourself what you want from a club and what you can put into a club. Its a two way deal here.

By all means start the process, ask the questions and see how it goes. If you get in (and want to get in) then get fully immersed in the life of the club.

 

[USER1999]

If they have dropped the joining fee, there will be a reason. If they are short of members (a good reason), then they need to encourage new ones. However, in doing this, they will annoy the members already there who did pay a joining fee. A rapid influx of new people, who know neither the rules, nor the etiquet, who don't abide by any dress code, and generally don't fit in, will cause an ever increasing outflow of members, leaving the club even worse off.

They need to ensure that anyone coming into the club will fit in (doesn't mean you have to be rich, good at golf, or a snob) with the rest, or at least some of the membership.

Bear in mind that for a lot of golfers, the club is like a second home. It all comes down to a simple question, 'would I invite this person into my home?'

 

[HomerJSimpson]

They are obviously short of membership to have dropped the joining fee. The question is why. Is it because they have increased overheads on course improvement/clubhouse refurb and need new blood to help pay or is it because membership is dwindling and the revenue is no longer there.

An interview is a standard process at most clubs as is getting a proposer and seconder but this is normally pretty easy to achieve if you already know someone.

I guess you need to weigh up how good the course is, along with other features like competitions and how easy it is to play in them, practice facilities, playability (how easy it is to get a game - do you need to book), the social side, professional, location etc.

To be honest if it were a decent track and had a good practice facility and I could play when I wanted (at Ascot you can roll up 7 days a week except when a competition is on) then I would probably be prepared to endure the stuffiness of the clubhouse as I would only use it for a post round drink.

 

[Herbie]

I wouldnt join any club that had a regime like this, it suggests to me (if your description is accurate) of a bunch of manipulative and controling farts. The fact that they openly state they assess if you are GOOD ENOUGH is a statement that would drive me 15 miles down the road in the blink of an eye.

If they are running a business all they need is a impartial h/c evaluation (traditional way is for a member to mark 3 cards for you and nothing else) bugger me, they will have you sitting down on the 18th with a written etiquette and rules test paper next!

 

[Leftie]

Seems to me that the local 18 hole club are doing their best for you - no joining fee, the opportunity to play on 3 occasions with anywhere between 3 and 9 existing members (that's a lot more than you already know), an interview which will probably be more of an informal chat and a "get to know each other" occasion, etc.

But you know what? If I were you, I wouldn't even bother. Apart from the opening sentence, you post was so negative that if you went for an interview and played with existing members your negativity would shine through like a beacon.

Clubs are not just looking for income in the short term. They are looking for members who actually want to join, play, and be part of the club. With your attitude, you possibly wouldn't be invited to join - like your chap who was refused membership.

If you really want to change clubs and this one is a possibility, don't take other people's negativity at face value. Have an open mind and go through the process. If you then have your own negative vibes then walk away. If the vibes are good then give it a go. You haven't got a joining fee to loose if it doesn't pan out after a year. You never know, it could be the best move you ever made.

As an example...

When I wanted to join my club I had to be proposed, seconded and have 2 sponsers, all of whom had to have been full (7 day) members for at least 5 years and who had to write in to the club with details of their knowledge of me as a golfer and person. I had to attend an interview with all the committee, club captain and secretary. Apart from having to chivvie up a couple of the letters, none of this was a problem for me as I wanted to join the club even though I had heard the usual comments about the club being "very traditional", cliquey, difficult to join and get to know people, in fact similar comments to those in your post.

It was the best move I ever made and in the main they are a great bunch of guys from ALL walks of life.

 

[OldWindy]

Interview them (see the financial reports, play the course, check out the clubhouse, minutes from the last 3 AGMs, etc.) then walk away and think about it while you check to see if there are any other clubs in the area to compete. Almost forgot, meet the captain; if he's a to$$er then there's a good chance of a high % of 'em.

 

[Herbie]

Seems to me that the local 18 hole club are doing their best for you - no joining fee, the opportunity to play on 3 occasions with anywhere between 3 and 9 existing members (that's a lot more than you already know), an interview which will probably be more of an informal chat and a "get to know each other" occasion, etc.

But you know what? If I were you, I wouldn't even bother. Apart from the opening sentence, you post was so negative that if you went for an interview and played with existing members your negativity would shine through like a beacon.

Clubs are not just looking for income in the short term. They are looking for members who actually want to join, play, and be part of the club. With your attitude, you possibly wouldn't be invited to join - like your chap who was refused membership.

If you really want to change clubs and this one is a possibility, don't take other people's negativity at face value. Have an open mind and go through the process. If you then have your own negative vibes then walk away. If the vibes are good then give it a go. You haven't got a joining fee to loose if it doesn't pan out after a year. You never know, it could be the best move you ever made.

As an example...

When I wanted to join my club I had to be proposed, seconded and have 2 sponsers, all of whom had to have been full (7 day) members for at least 5 years and who had to write in to the club with details of their knowledge of me as a golfer and person. I had to attend an interview with all the committee, club captain and secretary. Apart from having to chivvie up a couple of the letters, none of this was a problem for me as I wanted to join the club even though I had heard the usual comments about the club being "very traditional", cliquey, difficult to join and get to know people, in fact similar comments to those in your post.

It was the best move I ever made and in the main they are a great bunch of guys from ALL walks of life.

I can see what you are saying Leftie, but I have been a member at 8 or 9 clubs over the years and visited a number with a view to joining and this regime simply does not work for people who move from different areas as they know no one, where is the fairness and impartiality then and how can it be negative when the set up of the club is completely negative towards anyone the members do not know? I have experienced this at two clubs I looked up in days when I was very flush with cash and one of them left no option for an unknown and the other told me I would have to play elsewhere until people in the area got to know me and offered to second me. How negative is that? negativity is usually a reflection of both sides not just one or it stems from a collective base or opinion. The clubs with open minds and will to give anyone a fair crack of the whip are the clubs that show the positive. The club that told me to play elsewhere made a mistake as I played for another club team and whupped em good in the days when I played off a mean 6. And I disagree that people want to primarily join clubs for the club life, no, initially most people join clubs to play golf first and formost, if they dont they often end up as much of a problem at golf clubs as they do a benefit. People should be accepted and fit in BECAUSE they play golf or want to play golf, not because they like the social dancing art and symbolic cap doffing,otherwise golf clubs should be called 'social clubs with a golf course if you fancy a round' . I didn't read the poster as being negative, just honest,with feelings, observant and informative. why do I see that and you see negative? Not willing to accept everyone on equal terms as an equal, is negative, sitting in un-elected judgement of others you do not know is negative, I could list a whole host of negatives projected by clubs like the one described and others |I have experienced but I think the point is made. There is never a need for any of this up front inquisition because any club has the right to eject any member if they wish, so if you take on a wrong un, boot em out.

 

[viscount17]

not been through this so speak only from a distance as it were,

I can understand a requirement for a test of your golf (etiquette, playing ability, etc), but even if you don't 'pass' it shouldn't necessarily be an automatic no, so long as you demonstrate a willingness to learn - eg sign up for lessons, provisional membership etc.

I can understand the clubs wanting to meet you, after all you could be the neighbour from hell (big mouth from caddyshack) army boots on the parquet floor etc, but fully support herb that the mandatory sponsorship is counter productive and extremely restrictive. I suspect that in many cases it's a limitation of the language that they have no other word than 'interview' to use for the process.

I suspect that at some private (debenture) clubs it is deliberate as they will want to ensure that prospective members can support the club financially and much less about the golf.

I knew no-one at my club when I joined, if these practices were universal I may never have started at all.

 

[User 105]

I've been thinking of joining my first club in the new year and tbh the whole process does seem a little daunting with interviews, playing assessment, existing members having to propose you etc etc.

But a lot of these posts have somewhat dispelled some of my fears.

I think a lot of clubs could do themselves no harm to explain the process a bit better so it doesn't feel so 'stuffy' and one sided. Provide some of the explanations posted here.

e.g. Rather than state you need to go through an 'interview', explain that the interview is really an informal chat so both parties can ask questions get to know each other. It's as much for you as it is for them.

Having to play some rounds with existing members gives you a chance to get to know some of them.

Personally I feel much more at ease over the whole process now.

 

[Parmo]

This is one of the main reasons I enjoy Municipal club golf more than private members only type stuff. Yes you get the hackers in summer at times but once I start in comps the comp will block book the course and so cut down on these types, also there are rules in the club house, though I would prefer a dress code everyone behaves and looks generally smart. I got two proposes because I have played as a day member for over a year and know a couple of people, but if golf clubs what to survive then they need to accept the fact that some people who want to join don't know members.

As I see it, if you supply a hcp cert then there should be no need whatsoever for "qualifying" round or three with members to see what standard you are, in many cases this turns out to be see what cat you are, for example Moortown in Leeds is a heaven for this, you have to be stinking rich to join or be the son of someone who is stinking rich, the only exception is cat1 players as they can then use these on the "team", but if you go to the clubhouse on a Friday night there might be 4 people in

At the end of the day its down to personal choice, if someone wants to bend over for a club to get a foot in all fair do's, but for me I prefer a more honest and open club, though in recent times Municipal clubs are in a lot worse shape than private ones but the courses don't suffer due to being council owned.

 

[Herbie]

I think the simplest and fairest way for all clubs to work is to have a simple interview by the pro at the counter so to speak, obtain provisional full membership status for 3 to 6 months where you put in your cards, get to know people etc, if after this period you are accepted then full membership is applied for and obtained if no objections are raised. No need for pretencious or officious indoctrinations and an easy way out for clubs to get rid of undesireables.

 

[Leftie]

Herb et al

Sorry about delay in responding but I had an away game today, got back late, have just woken up and logged in. It was beautiful out there today but difficult with little carry and roll due to conditions. But I digress.....

I think that in many ways we are singing from the same song sheet. Westy put it better than me ....

"I think a lot of clubs could do themselves no harm to explain the process a bit better so it doesn't feel so 'stuffy' and one sided. Provide some of the explanations posted here.

e.g. Rather than state you need to go through an 'interview', explain that the interview is really an informal chat so both parties can ask questions get to know each other. It's as much for you as it is for them.

Having to play some rounds with existing members gives you a chance to get to know some of them."

I didn't want to make my post too long by going into too many aspects of the joining procedure but suffice to say that people with existing club handicaps wanting to join our club would almost certainly have played it a few times first with one or two friends who were members. If those friends were happy to put you up for membership they would arrange a game with a couple of other members who could be coerced into sponsering - preselection almost done

For those new to the area, a letter of introduction from their club secretary can often overcome the "not knowing any members" scenario.