Pro shop service

[Hobbit]

As an aside to this discussion, don't forget that the club are paying a hefty retainer to him in return for a 'service', so surely he has some sort of obligation to the members?

Hefty retainer?! Oh my sides are hurting. The average retainer isn't exactly eye watering by any stretch. From that he has to find wages for his little helpers/assistants. In winter there will be weeks when he takes nothing, and I mean nothing but still has to find the wages of his employee's. He is competing with the internet and the chain stores, with which he hasn't got the same buying power and hence can't always compete on price. And when he does compete on price his margin is measured in not a huge amount of anything. Imagine how much stock he has to shift in one week to clear the thick end of £XXXX, some of which he'll have to bank for winter.

I could give you sight of my son's books, which would really open your eyes to how difficult it is to be a club pro. 7:00am opening, and 7:00pm closing in the summer 6 days a week = 72 hrs. Minimum wage, or just above for the assistant in the first year, rising during each year thereafter. The majority of the retainer goes to the assistant and the helper, leaving him needing to nett (note nett) a decent wage for himself after he's set aside enough to replenish his stock.

By all means do your spending where you see fit but, and I'm sorry to be blunt, if you want a decent club pro you have to understand the realities around their business - enough people in this thread have suggested you're being unrealistic... but hey, you know best.

 

[chris661]

Hefty retainer?! Oh my sides are hurting. The average retainer isn't exactly eye watering by any stretch. From that he has to find wages for his little helpers/assistants. In winter there will be weeks when he takes nothing, and I mean nothing but still has to find the wages of his employee's. He is competing with the internet and the chain stores, with which he hasn't got the same buying power and hence can't always compete on price. And when he does compete on price his margin is measured in not a huge amount of anything. Imagine how much stock he has to shift in one week to clear the thick end of £XXXX, some of which he'll have to bank for winter.

I could give you sight of my son's books, which would really open your eyes to how difficult it is to be a club pro. 7:00am opening, and 7:00pm closing in the summer 6 days a week = 72 hrs. Minimum wage, or just above for the assistant in the first year, rising during each year thereafter. The majority of the retainer goes to the assistant and the helper, leaving him needing to nett (note nett) a decent wage for himself after he's set aside enough to replenish his stock.

By all means do your spending where you see fit but, and I'm sorry to be blunt, if you want a decent club pro you have to understand the realities around their business - enough people in this thread have suggested you're being unrealistic... but hey, you know best.

Great post.

 

[Val]

Hefty retainer?! Oh my sides are hurting. The average retainer isn't exactly eye watering by any stretch. From that he has to find wages for his little helpers/assistants. In winter there will be weeks when he takes nothing, and I mean nothing but still has to find the wages of his employee's. He is competing with the internet and the chain stores, with which he hasn't got the same buying power and hence can't always compete on price. And when he does compete on price his margin is measured in not a huge amount of anything. Imagine how much stock he has to shift in one week to clear the thick end of £XXXX, some of which he'll have to bank for winter.

I could give you sight of my son's books, which would really open your eyes to how difficult it is to be a club pro. 7:00am opening, and 7:00pm closing in the summer 6 days a week = 72 hrs. Minimum wage, or just above for the assistant in the first year, rising during each year thereafter. The majority of the retainer goes to the assistant and the helper, leaving him needing to nett (note nett) a decent wage for himself after he's set aside enough to replenish his stock.

By all means do your spending where you see fit but, and I'm sorry to be blunt, if you want a decent club pro you have to understand the realities around their business - enough people in this thread have suggested you're being unrealistic... but hey, you know best.

Hobbit there is 1 critical financial piece missing in your posts which is also costly to them but one which all pros rely on heavily at times of the year.

Overdraft

You don't pay that off by flogging members second hand kit for them.

 

[shivas irons]

Why on earth cant the supposedly "golfer friendly" pro shops help out the members and sell their clubs for them with some commision as they used to do so in the past?.I worked briefly in a golf shop and would say 25% of the trade where I worked was secondhand gear,also pro`s are always complaining about the small mark up they get selling new gear so why dont they subsidise the pro shops income by selling members used gear as it helps the member out and makes the club some money even if they are paying the vat on the stuff.You see this all the time with club pro`s and it makes you wonder if many of them have any business sense at all,or are they just being elitist and only interested in having the new posh gear in their shop!!.As for Golfbidder unless its the latest equipment the prices they offer are crazy low.

 

[Val]

Why on earth cant the supposedly "golfer friendly" pro shops help out the members and sell their clubs for them with some commision as they used to do so in the past?.I worked briefly in a golf shop and would say 25% of the trade where I worked was secondhand gear,also pro`s are always complaining about the small mark up they get selling new gear so why dont they subsidise the pro shops income by selling members used gear as it helps the member out and makes the club some money even if they are paying the vat on the stuff.You see this all the time with club pro`s and it makes you wonder if many of them have any business sense at all,or are they just being elitist and only interested in having the new posh gear in their shop!!.As for Golfbidder unless its the latest equipment the prices they offer are crazy low.

Understand what you are saying but take the OP's putter where he's looking for the pro to flog for £100, take off vat and a small commission for the pro you may be looking at the OP getting £70-£75 which is not what he's looking for. If he wants £100 then the pro needs to add a mark up and vat making the putter expensive.

The pro is out of pocket if he does potentially, and if he doesn't the OP is taking his business elsewhere.

Where does the pro turn?

 

[shivas irons]

Understand what you are saying but take the OP's putter where he's looking for the pro to flog for £100, take off vat and a small commission for the pro you may be looking at the OP getting £70-£75 which is not what he's looking for. If he wants £100 then the pro needs to add a mark up and vat making the putter expensive.

The pro is out of pocket if he does potentially, and if he doesn't the OP is taking his business elsewhere.

Where does the pro turn?

I agree the VAT is the killer here but I was under the assumption that the OP wanted £100 for the putter and the pro would sell the putter on to a punter for more than the £100.I guess after VAT there would be some profit still left for the club and i`m sure it all helps the club what with the current lack of interest in golf generally these days.

 

[Pull]

Do pros really turn over more than £70k that they need to register for VAT?

 

[Val]

Do pros really turn over more than £70k that they need to register for VAT?

Absolutely

£70k is nothing, our pro carries around £60k of stock and turns the lot in a season plus all the add ons, juice, sweets etc

 

[Val]

Double post

 

[shivas irons]

Absolutely

£70k is nothing, our pro carries around £60k of stock and turns the lot in a season plus all the add ons, juice, sweets etc

If your pro turns over 60K a year in golf related products and I guess theres not a lot of profit in drinks and sweets that pro shop is not going to generate a lot of profit in a year at all.I take it that figure doesent include tuition but Isnt that low figure more reason for the pro`s to make money where they can with secondhand gear?

 

[Val]

If your pro turns over 60K a year in golf related products and I guess theres not a lot of profit in drinks and sweets that pro shop is not going to generate a lot of profit in a year at all.I take it that figure doesent include tuition but Isnt that low figure more reason for the pro`s to make money where they can with secondhand gear?

I cannot say 100% what our pro's turnover is all I can say is he can hold £60k of stock and can turn it all, I'm unsure as to margins etc, lessons, drinks and sweets but I can say he has to make a reasonable turnover less costs and tax to give him a reasonable salary or he wouldn't be there.

I can't comment accurately on second hand gear, my pro doesn't sell it.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

A retainer? Is that enough to keep him and his family?

You are being very short sighted, you criticise him as he won't make you money and because of this you won't support him.

Seem a very 1 sided thought.

I have to add, our pro doesn't have a second hand rack.

Couple of comments on your post...

1) I'm not asking him to make ME money as any money that he makes me would have been spent in his shop, win/win situation??

2) This is a private members club, we pay him a hefty retainer to provide a decent service to the members. The pro shop phone number goes though the club telephony system so it doesn't cost him anything to call GB other than a couple of mins of his time.

Interestingly, the reason the last pro was given the push is because our general manager decided he wasn't providing a good enough service to the members

 

[Hobbit]

Why on earth cant the supposedly "golfer friendly" pro shops help out the members and sell their clubs for them with some commision as they used to do so in the past?.I worked briefly in a golf shop and would say 25% of the trade where I worked was secondhand gear,also pro`s are always complaining about the small mark up they get selling new gear so why dont they subsidise the pro shops income by selling members used gear as it helps the member out and makes the club some money even if they are paying the vat on the stuff.You see this all the time with club pro`s and it makes you wonder if many of them have any business sense at all,or are they just being elitist and only interested in having the new posh gear in their shop!!.As for Golfbidder unless its the latest equipment the prices they offer are crazy low.

If there are 400+ members at a club, of which 20% turn over at least one main item of eqpt, i.e. irons or woods or putter, in one year you've got the low end of the eqpt value a x% profit. Then take off the VAT. To go back to an earlier post, if you're not turning over the right numbers of modern eqpt the manufacturers take the 'agency' for that eqpt off you.

Now if the OP wants to clear £100, and the pro has to clear VAT & a small profit(a minimum margin for running a profitable business) for his service of selling it he is going to have to sell for somewhere in the region of £135 upwards. It may well be that it is possible to do so if the Scotty Cam is in that good a condition but in reality...

Elitest has nothing to do with paying a mortgage/wages etc and a pro that doesn't have an eye for a 'buck' will struggle. Pricing is what the market will sustain, and a pro won't screw a member because that's the quickest way to lose xx customers - people talk.

The reality is that the pro gets squeezed by the manufacturers, and the members who see internet prices on top of which want to do business as they did 10-15yrs ago. But if the deal is done via the internet, or the shop down the road, customer service for something that goes wrong goes out of the window.

 

[Val]

Couple of comments on your post...

1) I'm not asking him to make ME money as any money that he makes me would have been spent in his shop, win/win situation??

2) This is a private members club, we pay him a hefty retainer to provide a decent service to the members. The pro shop phone number goes though the club telephony system so it doesn't cost him anything to call GB other than a couple of mins of his time.

Interestingly, the reason the last pro was given the push is because our general manager decided he wasn't providing a good enough service to the members

So let me get this right, he is selling your unwanted kit to benefit him?

It doesn't benefit him it benefits you, all he gets is a small piece of profit on items you MAY buy in his shop. You say this word hefty again, how hefty is it? Is it a salary on its own? If not he has to make a wage some how.

As for Golfbidder, why don't you try them yourself?

Sounds like your pro is on a hiding to nothing at your club

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I'm not looking to 'clear' anything here. All I'm asking is that the pro puts the putter in the 2nd hand bin and whatever he sells it for gets credited to my account and I then spend the money in his shop.

Hardly rocket science is it.

 

[bobmac]

Maybe he knows something about the second hand Scotty market that you dont.
There are currently over 260 people trying to sell their Scottys on Ebay right now.
Or maybe he just doesn't like you

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

So let me get this right, he is selling your unwanted kit to benefit him?

Yes

 

[Val]

I'm not looking to 'clear' anything here. All I'm asking is that the pro puts the putter in the 2nd hand bin and whatever he sells it for gets credited to my account and I then spend the money in his shop.

Hardly rocket science is it.

But in your eyes it's a nonsense he doesn't do it.

 

[Val]

Yes

But he doesn't, he makes nothing from it. He MAY make something from the kit you MAY buy from him afterwards, it's all hypothetical.

 

[Hobbit]

Google golf professional retainer. The (hefty) retainer comes in at between "£15k and £20k and covers less than half the overheads." I know several clubs paying a lot less yet the club (members) still expect a gold standard professional service at High St/internet prices.

Is it any wonder so many professionals are finding something else to do for a living.