Private Schools... is it what it is cracked to be & not just toff?

[KenL]

@sawtooth.
Private schools and grammar schools only have good results because they are selective (and because their parents are supportive of their education).
Put any of those kids in any school and they would do just as well.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Private school and university was all paid for by my grandparents.
My father said it would be my choice as to where I wanted to go.

I chose a council school down the road with the kids I went to nursery with.
I don’t regret it. I don’t regret not going to uni either.

 

[Foxholer]

I work with a guy who is quite 'anti' private schools, but also highly demanding of the comp school that his 3 daughters have attended. He's in a fairly wealthy area and is actually seriously dedicated to 'pushing' his daughters as hard as he can - and they all agree with/appreciate this!

He's had lots of arguments with the comp school who didn't want to push his kids as hard as he/they desired! He resolved this by using a personal tutor and between them all they achieved pretty much better than their expectations! 1st daughter has just completed a Masters and was disappointed not to be awarded an internship at her targeted org - she subsequently found out that it was because they wanted to offer her an actual job (remuneration £60k!)!

The middle daughter has a choice of several 'premium' red-brick Unis and the youngest is likely to end up in Oxford!

So comprehensive education is not necessarilly a barrier to top Unis! Unfortunately, it's often the 'educators' who are the ones who limit expectations/results! Recognising and encouraging talent/potential should be something that should be encouraged - as opposed to 'living with mediocrity'! And that particularly applies to 'comprehensives'! Private schools tend to be geared to recognise these atributes!

Oh, and FWIW, my background is an NZ education, where my brother was pushed and achieved a 1st Class Honours degree at the same Uni as Rutherford and where, I believe, Prof Ian Kerr (as in Kerr Metric) was encouraged to return to further (unsuccessfully) push him towards analysis of gravitons - study/analysis/definition of which a Nobel Prize has recently been awadd! And (at a lower level) my ex (now deceased) was a teacher at a mediocre comprehensive that, with a dedicated Head, made huge advances up the 'tables'! And there were also some highly successful 'non academic' achievements for those who were determined to achieve non-academic goals as well!

 

[Mudball]

You don't have to justify it, and there isn't a problem; it's your money, you spend it as you see fit. :thup:

If others have a problem with it, it's precisely that; THEIR problem.

+1. Agree

 

[sawtooth]

@sawtooth.
Private schools and grammar schools only have good results because they are selective (and because their parents are supportive of their education).
Put any of those kids in any school and they would do just as well.

I agree to some extent but I don’t think he would have achieved quite the same level at the local comp for various reasons.

 

[pendodave]

Private schools hoover up many of the best teachers, many intelligent and motivated children and many engaged and interested parents. I'd say they have an overall negative impact on the state system.

 

[KenL]

Not true about the best teachers. A lot of the teachers in private schools get positions partly due to their ability to take a rugby or hockey team, not only their prowess as a teacher if a subject.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I assume you hold the same principles to people using Private Health Care.

Not 100% sure I get your point. I don't have private health but my wife is lucky enough to have private health through work, she got cancer and was operated on within a week through the private health. She may well have survived anyway through the NHS, but again I am not for a second going to question anyone for having/using private health.

I have made it clear several times that I think the current government needs to do more to fund the public sector. I am in relatively lucky position to be able to afford using the private sector version of education, but things like health and education should not be left just for the private sector to provide. I don't see a problem with a well funded public sector being available alongside the option to get services privately if you want to. As long as one is not causing substantial harm to the other.

 

[the smiling assassin]

I work with a guy who is quite 'anti' private schools, but also highly demanding of the comp school that his 3 daughters have attended. He's in a fairly wealthy area and is actually seriously dedicated to 'pushing' his daughters as hard as he can - and they all agree with/appreciate this!

He's had lots of arguments with the comp school who didn't want to push his kids as hard as he/they desired! He resolved this by using a personal tutor and between them all they achieved pretty much better than their expectations! 1st daughter has just completed a Masters and was disappointed not to be awarded an internship at her targeted org - she subsequently found out that it was because they wanted to offer her an actual job (remuneration £60k!)!

The middle daughter has a choice of several 'premium' red-brick Unis and the youngest is likely to end up in Oxford!

So comprehensive education is not necessarilly a barrier to top Unis! Unfortunately, it's often the 'educators' who are the ones who limit expectations/results! Recognising and encouraging talent/potential should be something that should be encouraged - as opposed to 'living with mediocrity'! And that particularly applies to 'comprehensives'! Private schools tend to be geared to recognise these atributes!

Oh, and FWIW, my background is an NZ education, where my brother was pushed and achieved a 1st Class Honours degree at the same Uni as Rutherford and where, I believe, Prof Ian Kerr (as in Kerr Metric) was encouraged to return to further (unsuccessfully) push him towards analysis of gravitons - study/analysis/definition of which a Nobel Prize has recently been awadd! And (at a lower level) my ex (now deceased) was a teacher at a mediocre comprehensive that, with a dedicated Head, made huge advances up the 'tables'! And there were also some highly successful 'non academic' achievements for those who were determined to achieve non-academic goals as well!

Getting! a! headache!! reading! this! with! so! many! exclamation!!!! marks!!...ouch

 

[Foxholer]

Getting! a! headache!! reading! this! with! so! many! exclamation!!!! marks!!...ouch

Whoopee! It's your problem! Get over it!!

 

[the smiling assassin]

Whoopee! It's your problem! Get over it!!

13/14 sentences finish with an exclamation mark, extraordinary enthusiasm(!)
It's definitely my problem, my OCD tendencies mean I can't help reading sentences with exclamations as if the writer is delivering an extreme and intensely earnest manner...I hate my brain sometimes 🙂

 

[Foxholer]

13/14 sentences finish with an exclamation mark, extraordinary enthusiasm(!)
It's definitely my problem, my OCD tendencies mean I can't help reading sentences with exclamations as if the writer is delivering an extreme and intensely earnest manner...I hate my brain sometimes 🙂

Perhaps we could actually get back to the essence of the thread!

 

[the smiling assassin]

The premise of private education in my view is either to provide higher quality education for those who can afford it, or a status symbol for those who can afford it.

For both those reasons, I'm out.

It's not that my family couldn't afford to provide it for our kids if we really put our resources into it - we just don't want our children growing up within an elite system which excludes the many, even if that disadvantages them for joining certain 'circles' in the future.

Their talents, in my opinion, will always have the opportunity to shine.

 

[KenL]

Well said assassin!

 

[Foxholer]

The premise of private education in my view is either to provide higher quality education for those who can afford it, or a status symbol for those who can afford it.

For both those reasons, I'm out.

It's not that my family couldn't afford to provide it for our kids if we really put our resources into it - we just don't want our children growing up within an elite system which excludes the many, even if that disadvantages them for joining certain 'circles' in the future.
...

Seems to me you are as much a snob as those you are criticising!

Their talents, in my opinion, will always have the opportunity to shine.

That's the proper attitude! Though I'm not totally convinced it's correct for everyone!

Btw/FWIW. I've assisted in raising 3 quite talented kids who excelled (School Captain; Deputy Head Girl; Head Boy) in a Comprehensive environment (and non-Red Brick Uni) and would almost certainly have done so in a 'Private' (and Red Brick or better Uni) one as well. It was (pretty much) their choice to go the Comprehensive route!

I'm afraid the 'elite system' will always exist! What I believe needs to happen is that opportunities are based on ability/merit/talent as opposed to the nature of the tie that a candidate wears!

 

[SocketRocket]

Not 100% sure I get your point. I don't have private health but my wife is lucky enough to have private health through work, she got cancer and was operated on within a week through the private health. She may well have survived anyway through the NHS, but again I am not for a second going to question anyone for having/using private health.

I have made it clear several times that I think the current government needs to do more to fund the public sector. I am in relatively lucky position to be able to afford using the private sector version of education, but things like health and education should not be left just for the private sector to provide. I don't see a problem with a well funded public sector being available alongside the option to get services privately if you want to. As long as one is not causing substantial harm to the other.

An interesting post. I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that you had more of a Socialist outlook on these matters. Maybe you could explain how the Government should increase spending on the Public Sector? As they are sitting on a £1.7 Trillion deficit; increased spending would mean we live even further beyond our means, would you suggest increasing income tax/National Insurance by 50% or raise the upper levels to 90p in the pound or maybe even a massive increase in immigration as it is supposed to create huge increases in tax revenue.

 

[bobmac]

Getting! a! headache!! reading! this! with! so! many! exclamation!!!! marks!!...ouch

You are not alone.

 

[Hobbit]

The premise of private education in my view is either to provide higher quality education for those who can afford it, or a status symbol for those who can afford it.

For both those reasons, I'm out.

It's not that my family couldn't afford to provide it for our kids if we really put our resources into it - we just don't want our children growing up within an elite system which excludes the many, even if that disadvantages them for joining certain 'circles' in the future.

Their talents, in my opinion, will always have the opportunity to shine.

Bites nose off to spite face? Inverted snobbery?

#1 daughter went to a very rough comp. Achieved excellent GCSE grades and her predictions for A level were exceptional, which she achieved. In the run up to her A levels she went for interview at Oxford but didn’t get in, although others there for interview with far poorer predictions did - the right schools.

She left uni with a 1st class honours and top student out of 240. But then she came up against the ‘old boy’ network.

She has forged a fantastic career through exceptional graft, whilst her husband went to the right school, and the Oxford. Subsequently, with poor grades he’s walked into top jobs.

The system stinks but, like the offside rule, someone else has created rules we’re stuck with.

 

[KenL]

That's absolutely disgusting Hobbit!

Prejudice like that (or any other form of it) in this and age is a disgrace :-(

 

[Mudball]

An interesting post. I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that you had more of a Socialist outlook on these matters. Maybe you could explain how the Government should increase spending on the Public Sector? As they are sitting on a £1.7 Trillion deficit; increased spending would mean we live even further beyond our means, would you suggest increasing income tax/National Insurance by 50% or raise the upper levels to 90p in the pound or maybe even a massive increase in immigration as it is supposed to create huge increases in tax revenue.

... easier to put some additional tax pensioners because they had it easy ... JustSaying :ears: