potential problem with the new 'flag in' rule !

[backwoodsman]

Well thought it was time to dig out this thread as it was the first time we played a comp (non qualifying) with the new flag rule.

I won't bore you all with every shot will talk about what I did personally on the green.

1st - pitch to 1 foot. Flag in tap in
2nd - flag out 7 footer. Missed. Tap in no flag.
3rd - flag out 2 footer down hill
4th - flag in 7 footer downhill. Flag leaning a little left and away from me. Felt and looked good. left it in.
5th- tap in after leaving in for a 15 footer. Flag out.
6th - flag in from 12 foot. holed it. Confidence growing with this.
7th. Tap in with flag in.
8th. 30 footer. Told flag leaning towards me. Said dont worry. Leave it in. holed for bird. Flag in.
9th. Pitch to 15 feet. Well struck putt hits flag as it drops straight into the hole.
10- chip to 3 feet. Tap in. flag in.
11- 2 putt from 15 feet just off back of green. Flag in.
12- 20 foot two putt. Tap in flag in.
13- 10 foot flag in two putt.
14- 2 putt flag out tap in.
15 - 2 putt flag in.
16- 7 foot 1 putt flag out as it was leaning towards me.
17 - tap in flag out on 2nd putt.
18- 8 foot 1 putt. Flag in.

13 times I had the flag in when the ball went in the hole.

For me it is a clear advantage to have it in the hole a fair bit. We have flags that droop and sag. It is easy to see if the flag will help or hinder you.

Golf for me felt very different today. It certainly was handy to be able to just walk up and putt away. I did ask for the flag to be put back in quite often. My preference was quickly picked up by my mates.

Looking forward to seeing how others react to this. Wonder how will follow Bryson's lead.

Ah well, early evidence that the rule change is unlikely to speed up play & prevent faffing around ?
If people are asking for the flag to be put back in when it's already out, that is ?

 

[Grant85]

It will be interesting to see how the pros treat this.

I feel certain there is an advantage with leaving the flag in and stats will soon show this.

If we start seeing pros leaving the flag in and banging in the ball from 5 or 6 foot, clearly using the flag to hit a firm putt and eliminate any break, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the rule changed back, or allowed for local rules variations.

We will also see most courses, certainly at Pro events, using flags with thinner flag pole at the bottom.

 

[Imurg]

Just a thought...
Many Pros take the flag out when they're chipping and reckon they can hole
They obviously feel they have more chance with the flag out..

 

[garyinderry]

Ah well, early evidence that the rule change is unlikely to speed up play & prevent faffing around ?
If people are asking for the flag to be put back in when it's already out, that is ?

There is a bit of both tbh. a couple of times today we were able to walk up and hit one or two front edge lag putts without needing a playing partner to walk up and tend the flag.

There is certainly added faff when players want the flag put back in. I was certainly guilty of this quite a bit. it just means some people have to actually do something rather than stand bone idle, or you fire it back in yourself. Takes a second to do.

I don't think it will be the maker or breaker of slow play. we were a 3 ball and easily kept up with the group in front.

 

[Grant85]

Just a thought...
Many Pros take the flag out when they're chipping and reckon they can hole
They obviously feel they have more chance with the flag out..

I think this an error on their part.

Some pros leave the flag in even if they are putting from 7 foot and are an inch off the green.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think Gary's last post is valid and putting up with it in instead of waiting for everyone to drop off bags and then tends the flag. I still think however, certainly initially there will be issues with players wanting the flag in/out and more will want it out if and when they putt and the it hit the flag and stays out

 

[clubchamp98]

I think this an error on their part.

Some pros leave the flag in even if they are putting from 7 foot and are an inch off the green.

I have tried flag in over the last couple of rounds.
And agree if you hit it hard in the middle it helps but if you glance the flag it dosnt help , keeping the ball out.
I have the flag out as long as I can see the hole properly.
Can’t see this changing.

Everyone will have their own preference this just gives you another option should you choose it.

 

[SteveJay]

Experiments in the US have demonstrated that it is certainly advantageous to leave the flag in when putting. I think in time most players will realise that is a better option and so eventually the rule could improve the pace of play.

 

[Grant85]

I have tried flag in over the last couple of rounds.
And agree if you hit it hard in the middle it helps but if you glance the flag it dosnt help , keeping the ball out.
I have the flag out as long as I can see the hole properly.
Can’t see this changing.

Everyone will have their own preference this just gives you another option should you choose it.

Yes, people will have their preferences but pretty soon we will have actual real stats from real competitons and I’d imagine this may influence the preferences and tactics of people, both pro and amatuer.

 

[jim8flog]

going back the OP about having the flagstick leaning away. A player may not do this as a deliberate action

From the rule book
In either case:

• The player must not try to gain an advantage by deliberately moving the [URL='http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/definitions.html#flagstick']flagstick to a position other than centred in the [URL='http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/definitions.html#hole']hole[/URL][/URL]

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Just a thought...
Many Pros take the flag out when they're chipping and reckon they can hole
They obviously feel they have more chance with the flag out..

I agree. I don't know what the stats say but my view is that you have to hit the flagstick pretty much square on otherwise slightly off centre and the ball will ricochet away from the hole. You have to be very accurate to hit a flagstick that is only about 1 inch wide.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

My only issue with putting with the flag in is playing a windy links I don't fancy the distraction of the flag blowing around and flapping while I'm setting up for my putt and would prefer someone holding the flag to remove that distraction.

Calm day no problem.

 

[turkish]

I actually didn’t think of the flag in then out then in then our scenario and can’t believe the USGA and R&A didn’t consider it could have opposite effect of what they intended.

I played yesterday and noticed a leaning flag scenario- if you putted with it facing it literally could not drop at the front of the cup as not enough space... obvious a big advantage if facing away from you.

Think they need to say when it’s out it needs to remain out but will cause further issues with people wanting in maybe having to play out of turn. Then there would be matchplay issues.

 

[Garush34]

I actually didn’t think of the flag in then out then in then our scenario and can’t believe the USGA and R&A didn’t consider it could have opposite effect of what they intended.

I played yesterday and noticed a leaning flag scenario- if you putted with it facing it literally could not drop at the front of the cup as not enough space... obvious a big advantage if facing away from you.

Think they need to say when it’s out it needs to remain out but will cause further issues with people wanting in maybe having to play out of turn. Then there would be matchplay issues.

Rule 5.6b states that players should play "ready golf" in a safe and responsible way. So players should be taking this into account, so if a mix of players want it in then let them play first no matter who is closer.

 

[turkish]

I understand ready golf but that doesn’t take away from what I’ve said. There will still be a lot of instances of flag in and flag out then back in.

The 2 rules aren’t intertwined so you might get people closer saying they aren’t ready so reverts back to furthest away.

Will be interested to see but just think it might get messy and no quicker

 

[duncan mackie]

Rule 5.6b states that players should play "ready golf" in a safe and responsible way. So players should be taking this into account, so if a mix of players want it in then let them play first no matter who is closer.

Or, probably radically given many other posts, once the first player who wishes the flag removed putts everyone else who's happy with it out putts out, and anyone wishing to have it back in waits until they have finished....🤔

I know I'm old fashioned, but it's generally worked that way without issue (or delay) for centuries 😎

 

[Jacko_G]

I understand ready golf but that doesn’t take away from what I’ve said. There will still be a lot of instances of flag in and flag out then back in.

The 2 rules aren’t intertwined so you might get people closer saying they aren’t ready so reverts back to furthest away.

Will be interested to see but just think it might get messy and no quicker

There really shouldn't be.

If the flag is out and you are 3, 4, 5 or whatever feet away are you really going to ask for it to go back in?

If your 45 feet away how many people are going to argue in/out when in reality your struggling to hit the hole never mind the flag stick.

People are reading way to much into the flag in/out scenario.

 

[garyinderry]

There really shouldn't be.

If the flag is out and you are 3, 4, 5 or whatever feet away are you really going to ask for it to go back in?

If your 45 feet away how many people are going to argue in/out when in reality your struggling to hit the hole never mind the flag stick.

People are reading way to much into the flag in/out scenario.

The time I save lag putting with the flag in can be used to put the flag in for my 3 foot down hiller if I so wish.

Takes literally a second or two to put back in. No fuss.

 

[Garush34]

I understand ready golf but that doesn’t take away from what I’ve said. There will still be a lot of instances of flag in and flag out then back in.

The 2 rules aren’t intertwined so you might get people closer saying they aren’t ready so reverts back to furthest away.

Will be interested to see but just think it might get messy and no quicker

I agree that the rules are not intertwined but both are designed to speed up play, so it's pointless if players are going to be going by the old I'm further away so I'll play but I'd like the flag back in before I do so even though its just been taken out for someone else. The only way to have the once its out it stays out is if you agree that with your group.

 

[Jacko_G]

The time I save lag putting with the flag in can be used to put the flag in for my 3 foot down hiller if I so wish.

Takes literally a second or two to put back in. No fuss.

I'm certainly not disputing that.