Point of nearest relief question

[MarkA]

I had a situation last Sunday where i was playing our 14th hole which is a long par 5, the green protected by a pond i hit my approach shot and hit the bank of the pond short of the green and it rolled back stopping just short of the water. The ball was just playable and I hit my next shot which bounced back off the bank over my shoulder and in to the water. Where was my nearest point of relief? - between the green and the pond or the fairway side of the pond.
I played my next shot from the fairway side of the pond but my playing colleagues said I could have dropped at the bottom of the bank. I'm confused

 

[Lump]

I had a situation last Sunday where i was playing our 14th hole which is a long par 5, the green protected by a pond i hit my approach shot and hit the bank of the pond short of the green and it rolled back stopping just short of the water. The ball was just playable and I hit my next shot which bounced back off the bank over my shoulder and in to the water. Where was my nearest point of relief? - between the green and the pond or the fairway side of the pond.
I played my next shot from the fairway side of the pond but my playing colleagues said I could have dropped at the bottom of the bank. I'm confused

Red or Yellow staked?

 

[MarkA]

Red or Yellow staked?

Red

 

[SammmeBee]

Red

In simplest terms, 2 clubs lengths from the edge of the hazard from where it last crossed (ie where you are standing in this case) no nearer the hole.

Nearest point of relief does not apply to water hazards.....

 

[bladeplayer]

I take it , it exited the hazard with your shot , then back over your shoulder into the hazard, yes ?

Ok not a rule expert but ..
option would be 2 club lengths not nearer the hole from the point it crossed the hazard ..

p.s under penalty ,

EDITED .. may have been reading more into the problem so took the last bit out

 

[MarkA]

I take it , it exited the hazard with your shot , then back over your shoulder into the hazard, yes ?

Ok not a rule expert but ..
option would be 2 club lengths not nearer the hole from the point it crossed the hazard ..

p.s under penalty ,

EDITED .. may have been reading more into the problem so took the last bit out

Yes it exited and came back over my shoulder - so effectively id be dropping it from where I took the shot!

 

[Region3]

Playing from the spot of your previous shot is always an option, red or yellow stakes.

 

[bladeplayer]

Yes it exited and came back over my shoulder - so effectively id be dropping it from where I took the shot!

im trying to picture it in my head ,

you take the point it crossed INTO the hazard then you take a point 2 club lenghts not nearer the hole and drop there , (outside the hazard) if it rolls inside the hazard you drop again , if it rolls in a second time you can then place it where it hit the ground , but you wont be playing from inside the hazard again ..

 

[MarkA]

im trying to picture it in my head ,

you take the point it crossed INTO the hazard then you take a point 2 club lenghts not nearer the hole and drop there , (outside the hazard) if it rolls inside the hazard you drop again , if it rolls in a second time you can then place it where it hit the ground , but you wont be playing from inside the hazard again ..

My point here is that the ball was right on the edge of the bank - to drop it would mean losing the ball in the water - two club lengths would be in the water or nearer the green - the ball wasnt in the hazzard initially but entered the hazard backwards having bounced off the bank. In my mind the nearest point of relief was the other side of the pond either that or just place from my where i played the shot initially ( this is where im not sure)

 

[Colin L]

I'm not quite visualising the set-up, Mark. Everything you describe makes sense if it were a water hazard but I can't picture any of it as a lateral water hazard. Are you sure the stakes were red and not yellow?

And can you clarify where the stakes were - ie was this bank within the margins of the hazard or not?

 

[MarkA]

Im doubting myself now and think it is probably a regular water hazard as there is only one area you couldnt play from behind which wasnt relevant. I think its probably yellow stakes ( i'll check tomorrow)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and did you say that your shot from within the hazard actually got out of the hazard before bouncing back in? Often a bank to a water hazard will be deemed to be part of the hazard and marked by posts as such. Your shot might not actually have got out of the hazard therefore the point at which you entered the hazard could be the original shot into the hazard.

 

[Colin L]

...and did you say that your shot from within the hazard actually got out of the hazard before bouncing back in? Often a bank to a water hazard will be deemed to be part of the hazard and marked by posts as such. Your shot might not actually have got out of the hazard therefore the point at which you entered the hazard could be the original shot into the hazard.

Mark, that's why I was asking where the stakes are placed.

 

[rulefan]

Im doubting myself now and think it is probably a regular water hazard as there is only one area you couldnt play from behind which wasnt relevant. I think its probably yellow stakes ( i'll check tomorrow)

If they were yellow stakes it would seem that you should now be playing from the side of the hazard further from the hole or from as near as possible to where you hit the last shot.

Although you say you would lose the ball in the water in the latter case, there are circumstances where you can prevent the ball from rolling in.

 

[MarkA]

I know its bizarre ive never had anything like this happen before and its flummoxed me as to what the correct ruling is as the ball was travelling away from the green!

 

[Colin L]

Mark,

If it was a water hazard as opposed to a lateral water hazard, these diagrams illustrate what has been said above about where you could drop. (Click on the image to get the full size.)
a) If the bank was inside the margin of the hazard and your ball therefore did not leave the hazard before rebounding from the bank, (first diagram)
b) if the bank was outwith the margin and your ball therefore rebounded from outside the hazard (second diagram)

In each case you are dropping back along the line from the place where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard to the hole.



View attachment 5607

 

[rulefan]

Colin
You diagrams might have been better if the line had been drawn from the hole then through the point of las crossing the margin.

 

[Colin L]

As Kenny Dalgleish would have said, maybe aye and maybe no. Maybe no was a deliberate choice.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Mark,

If it was a water hazard as opposed to a lateral water hazard, these diagrams illustrate what has been said above about where you could drop. (Click on the image to get the full size.)
a) If the bank was inside the margin of the hazard and your ball therefore did not leave the hazard before rebounding from the bank, (first diagram)
b) if the bank was outwith the margin and your ball therefore rebounded from outside the hazard (second diagram)

In each case you are dropping back along the line from the place where the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard to the hole.

View attachment 5606

View attachment 5607

...and I'll note - though Colin will correct me if I'm wrong - that for the scenario b) dropping line to be the one you would use, it does not matter whether your ball was inside the posts and in the hazard (as your ball was) - or outside of the posts and not in the hazard (as shown in the second diagram). I think.

 

[Colin L]

...and I'll note - though Colin will correct me if I'm wrong - that for the scenario b) dropping line to be the one you would use, it does not matter whether your ball was inside the posts and in the hazard (as your ball was) - or outside of the posts and not in the hazard (as shown in the second diagram). I think.

That's correct.