Playing with a bit of a Rogue...

[Redwood]

Guys,

Got our first medal on Sunday, and me and a mate have been paired with a guy who is quite a well known cheat around the club. In fact, we have experience of him cheating first hand.

What sort of things would you look out for to make sure someone wasn't trying to pull the wool over your eyes? Any tricks, that you know guys try, to get away with a few transgressions?

Also, as most of us know, the rules can be a but of a grey area for most golfers, and most of us have different views or interpretations of certain rules. If there is a situation where we think he may have broken the rules, but he claims otherwise, what would be the correct course of action for us to take?

Any advice greatly appreciated.
Redwood.

 

[HRC99]

Just play your own game and don't worry about him. If you catch him at it, you catch him. Don't let his behaviour spoil or affect your round.

 

[Robobum]

As above, if you go out with the intention of uncovering his cheating ways then you are less likely to enjoy your own game.

If you do catch him doing anything wrong, take him up on it there and then don't wait till the finish of the hole or next tee.

 

[stevewilko]

Diplomacy is the best course of action, its so off putting when someone is mathemacticaly lacking!!!
or plays football in the rough lol.
Play your own game but also make him aware that he is being watched that should be enough of a deterant.
If he still does it report it to the comps sec and refuse to play with him again, if everyone did this he would soon change his ways.
Good luck

 

[GasMan]

Warn him before you tee off that if you catch him cheating you'll either refuse to sign his card if you're marking it or you'll add the appropriate penalties to his score. If he complains about this it's 2 vs 1 and seeing as his reputation preceeds him he'll have no choice but to behave or take his medicine!

 

[Redwood]

Thanks for the tips.

What would be the course of action, say, if I was marking his card and I thought he'd taken 6 on a hole and he said 5 (duspute over whether a drop was a penalty drop or not)?

Would I mark the card and put down what I thought the score was, or not mark the card at all for that hole and make a note to check the ruling in the clubhouse with someone else?

 

[Swinger]

There are many ways to cheat so its hard to claify what you should be looking out for.
Its easy enough to 'keep an eye' on most things without spoiling your round for example:-

If he has a reputation of finding every ball no matter where he hits it.
- Bearing in mind this is a medal round then if any ball is hit into a position where finding it is not definate then you should suggest he plays a provisional. If he dismisses this then this would raise alarm bells with me. The trick then is to walk briskly to the area his ball is in so he can't run up there and have 'found' it before you get there. Also while looking try to face his back so that your eyes are on him and he can't drop a ball without you seeing.

- Everyone should mark their golf balls so there can be no misktake in identifiying them, remember the number and markings of his ball (which he should show and tell you on the first tee, and with any subsequent ball change. However some people do have lots of pre marked balls in the bag already. If you notice all his balls are marked including new ones then this should raise alarms.

If he 'forgets' shots.
- Just keep an account of where he has been on each hole and record the score on the next tee. Make sure you confirm the score with him on the tee so that he has agreed with you what he scored and you are happy.


Forward wiggle and a downward press!
- If you decide he is improving his lie (more so he is in the rough) then you must bring this to his attention by stating your disproval of his actions and that he is in breach of the rules and that you won't sign his card if you think it is happening again. You need to be sure you saw this happen otherwise you don't have much ground to stand on.

Suspicious rulings.
- Not sure how brushed up on the rules you are but if you are unhappy at any point with any rulings he tries to enforce then you can refer to you hand held rule book (which should be in your bag!!) if you cannot reach an agreement then you can refer the decision to your club committee for a final decision. As a normal club member you are not allowed to contact the R&A but they can on any difficult matters.

You can always refuse to sign his card at the end of the round but you need to document why you do not believe his score to be correct and you may have to defend you actions in front of a club committee (In the worst cases where the cheat refuses to accept he has been caught) but just present the case in a well documented manner and explain to them that his action were not in the spirit of the game or were in breach of the rules of golf.
Unless you are prepared to confront this person and tackle this situation which could become heated (Nobody likes to be called a cheat even if they are!!) then its pointless looking for the signs, but for the integrity of the game I hope you catch the bastard!!
At the end of the day if someone wants to cheat they usually can at some point and a lot of people do without realising it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Robobum]

Warn him before you tee off that if you catch him cheating you'll either refuse to sign his card if you're marking it or you'll add the appropriate penalties to his score. If he complains about this it's 2 vs 1 and seeing as his reputation preceeds him he'll have no choice but to behave or take his medicine!

That'll make for a nice pleasant round for everyone.

No need to confront him until he does do something wrong, it may be genuine ignorance to the ruling?? Better to keep it civil at first but if it is a case of leather wedges and pocket drops then give him back his unsigend card and tell him that you will report be him.

 

[viscount17]

- Everyone should mark their golf balls so there can be no misktake in identifiying them, remember the number and markings of his ball (which he should show and tell you on the first tee, and with any subsequent ball change. However some people do have lots of pre marked balls in the bag already. If you notice all his balls are marked including new ones then this should raise alarms.

why? mine are marked ahead, often use different colours on balls of the same number though

(if you use as many as I do, it's quicker)

 

[Redwood]

Did I mention that he is an ex Marine?

 

[GasMan]

Warn him before you tee off that if you catch him cheating you'll either refuse to sign his card if you're marking it or you'll add the appropriate penalties to his score. If he complains about this it's 2 vs 1 and seeing as his reputation preceeds him he'll have no choice but to behave or take his medicine!

That'll make for a nice pleasant round for everyone.

No need to confront him until he does do something wrong, it may be genuine ignorance to the ruling?? Better to keep it civil at first but if it is a case of leather wedges and pocket drops then give him back his unsigend card and tell him that you will report be him.

I couldn't care less if it brings about a sour mood for the round. If they get the hump that their reputation precedes them they've got 2 choices:
1) Improve their conduct consistently until they are no longer labelled.
2) Don't leave their bag anywhere near a deep water hazard and turn their back on it - it may just happen to "fall" in.

I detest cheats and don't shy away from confrontation with people of that ilk.

 

[Swinger]

Do you not think it looks suspicious if I rolled up with 10 Pro V1's in my bag all marked the same?
No? Ok, I do though. I've played with a few cheats and they do it. Someone marking up a sleeve of three by the first tee all the same and the same number. That is very suspicious to me.
If your marking your balls different colours then this would not raise too much alarm except for the fact that I might be looking for a few as you marked so many before the round started!

 

[drawboy]

How has this guy been allowed to carry on cheating? if everyone knows him as a cheat then his behavior should have been addressed by a member of the committee by now.

 

[Yerman]

Thanks for the tips.

What would be the course of action, say, if I was marking his card and I thought he'd taken 6 on a hole and he said 5 (duspute over whether a drop was a penalty drop or not)?

Would I mark the card and put down what I thought the score was, or not mark the card at all for that hole and make a note to check the ruling in the clubhouse with someone else?

You are the one marking his card so you put what you scored each hole but as such you should be witnessing and counting each shot and asking him what he's doing if he takes a drop.

 

[Swinger]

Did I mention that he is an ex Marine?

Definatly keep with your front towards him then!

 

[Redwood]

I think he's one of these guys who pleads innosence, but seems to be innocent quite often.

What happened with us is we were playing 3BBB during festival week at Bude.

Playing down the 12 my mate slices his tee shot right into the rough. They were playing down the 11 towards us and we saw him looking in the grass around where my mates ball had landed. By the time we got there he had played "his" ball and moved on.

We looked of my mates ball for a few minutes and then found what he thought was his. It was the same make and model, but not the same number and wasn't marked.

We played the hole as should have been, and by the time we'd teed off on 13 they were on the 12th green. We went over and asked him if he had knowingly played the wrong ball on 11, to which he said no, but took a ball out of his bag, which was my mates.

Did he cheat knowingly? Maybe not, maybe he noticed on the 12 tee he had the wrong ball, but he should have identified his in the rough on 11, and he denied it to us.

The guy who made up our 3 ball mentioned that he seems to be involved in quite a few incedents like that.

 

[User 105]

I played with a guy last year just as a 2 ball in one of our comps.

On the first he claimed a 5 but I was pretty sure he took 6, but wasn't positive. I let it slide but on every other hole I counted his shots and before he could announce his score I'd state it for him.

Nothing aggressive or anything. Just '5 for you there' etc.

Not sure if he just miscounted the 1st, but he never once challenged me on his score after that. Just showed him I was paying attention!

Also, if you are in doubt or disagree with the ruling he states. Just say sorry, you disagree or are unsure of that, and say you'd like to check that with the pro\comps sec at the end of the round before you sign his card.

For me I think it's not getting two tied up and confrontational. It'll just spoil the round. Just play it straight and he has no comeback or complaint.

 

[stevewilko]

If he's a marine tell your mate to watch him and score lol lol.
One of our regular players (now) was i will say a little untrained in the art of A, counting B, moving a ball to improve lies etc, and C, putting out.
But a little word in a jokey fashion soon made him aware of what was right and what was not, a lot of it he was not aware of rules and getting away with doing it in friendly matches with his previous mates because no one had pulled him up with it.
I lost a Comp once on count back and when talking in the Clubhouse after, it appeared everyone knew the person who won put a 5 down on the 1st but his partners counted at least 7!! no one questioned it at the time so my loss.
Im with Gasman Shoot them all pmsl

 

[bobmac]

If you have a question about a ruling that you cant agree on, you have 2 options.
1. As it's medal, you can ask him to play 2 balls. One using his rule and the other using yours. Take note of both scores and ask the pro at the end who was right.
2. PLEASE carry a rule book in your bag. If you cant agree on a ruling, take out the book, give it to Mr Rogue and ask him to show you the ruling he is claiming.

 

[golfcitydweller]

u and ur mate should pin him down and break his legs with say a 9 iron !! it worked for tiger`s wife ...that`s what cheating b--tards deserve enjoy ur game