Playing a provisional ball when previous ball thought to be lost in a water hazard

[berniethebolt]

I though I understood but now I am confused! Can I try to summarise?
If I know beyond reasonable doubt that my ball is in a water hazard (penalty area) I have several options none of which, for obvious reasons, allow hitting a provisional ball. Rule 26.
If I am not sure it is in a water hazard but it may be then I still cannot hit a provisional ball as the definition of a provisional ball precludes this.
I then have 2 options.
a) Drop another ball which immediately becomes the ball in play and the first one - wherever it is - is effectively abandoned. Rule 27
b) Proceed to the water hazard. If the first ball is found not in it then continue with that ball - play it or declare it unplayable etc. If it is found in or it is generally agreed that it could not be anywhere else but in, then proceed as Rule 26.
Rule 26 refers back to rule 27-1 so I could return to where I hit the previous ball from.
The overriding consideration is that one cannot hit a provisional ball if a water hazard (penalty area) is involved unless, as Mr Mackie says, a local rule allows it.

 

[cliveb]

If I am not sure it is in a water hazard but it may be then I still cannot hit a provisional ball as the definition of a provisional ball precludes this.

I believe you have this bit wrong. If your ball may or may not be in a water hazard, then you can play a provisional.

Even if it's quite likely to be in the hazard, but there's a chance it isn't, then you can still play a provisional.

 

[berniethebolt]

Yes I take your point. I was confused in that my original post concerned someone who thought his ball was in the water and proceeded on that basis.

 

[duncan mackie]

I believe you have this bit wrong. If your ball may or may not be in a water hazard, then you can play a provisional.

Even if it's quite likely to be in the hazard, but there's a chance it isn't, then you can still play a provisional.

In essence correct - best explained by being able to play a provisional if your ball may be lost outside a penalty area, regardless of any other possible, or even probably, places it could be!

 

[rulefan]

To put it another way. If you know or are virtually certain the the ball you have just hit is in a penalty area (whether or not it you may be able to find it in the PA), you may not play a provisional ball.

 

[rulie]

Yes I take your point. I was confused in that my original post concerned someone who thought his ball was in the water and proceeded on that basis.

Based on the facts you've provided, I don't know how "provisional" even entered the discussion. While he may have been entitled to play a provisional, he did not follow the required procedure, so the second ball played from the spot where the previous stroke was made became his ball in play under stroke and distance and the original ball was lost by definition.

 

[Rlburnside]

So true. Often good players are less aware of the rules than most of us.
Saw a young pro playing at our club pick a ball up off a tee as he thought he had to take relief.

Could you expand on that please as I thought you had to take relief if your ball landed on a tee.

 

[rulie]

Could you expand on that please as I thought you had to take relief if your ball landed on a tee.

Please clarify what you mean by a "tee" - is a tee peg, a teeing ground, a tee box, a teeing area?

 

[rulefan]

Is this about a tee peg or a teeing ground?
If the latter, there is no prohibition in the rules against playing from a teeing ground.
If the former, a tee is a movable obstruction. Relief is not compulsory. In the unlikely event of your ball landing and remaining on a tee already stuck in the ground, you may play the nicely teed up ball if you wish.

 

[doublebogey7]

Could you expand on that please as I thought you had to take relief if your ball landed on a tee.

Then you thought wrong. You cannot take free relief when your ball is on the tee of a hole not being played. You could, of course, declare the ball unplayable and take relief under penalty.

 

[Rlburnside]

Please clarify what you mean by a "tee" - is a tee peg, a teeing ground, a tee box, a teeing area?

There was me thinking by quoting KenLs post it was obvious the ball was on the teeing ground .

 

[brfcfan]

Am I correct in saying that once I have hit a provisional, if I find the ball is inside the hazard, I have to play the provisional ball even if I can play the original ball from inside the hazard?

That must be the case as you are not allowed to have choices of which ball to play in golf.

 

[Rlburnside]

Then you thought wrong. You cannot take free relief when your ball is on the tee of a hole not being played. You could, of course, declare the ball unplayable and take relief under penalty.

Ok thanks another lesson learnt

 

[backwoodsman]

Am I correct in saying that once I have hit a provisional, if I find the ball is inside the hazard, I have to play the provisional ball even if I can play the original ball from inside the hazard?

That must be the case as you are not allowed to have choices of which ball to play in golf.

You can hit a provisional if you believe the original ball likely to be lost outside of a hazard (soon to be penalty area). If it happens to turn out that the original ball is actually in a hazard ( ie by being found there), it does not mean the provisional was improperly played. But it does mean that the found original is the ball in play and is the ball which has to be played - as it lies, or with penalty relief etc. And the provisional has to be abandoned.

 

[clubchamp98]

There was me thinking by quoting KenLs post it was obvious the ball was on the teeing ground .

Nothing is obvious in the rules of golf!

 

[clubchamp98]

I really can’t understand why penalty area has replaced all hazards.
It’s just going to Confuse everyone who’s not up on all the rules .

What is the logic to the general area instead of the course.
There’s a lot of changes and most golfers will still call a water hazard a water hazard and be corrected by the committee members.

 

[rulefan]

I really can’t understand why penalty area has replaced all hazards.

What is the logic to the general area instead of the course.

Penalty areas are not just water hazards.

The course is larger than the general area. The general area is the area of the course that covers all of the course
except for the other four defined areas: (1) the teeing area (2) penalty areas, (3) all bunkers, and (4) the putting green of the hole the player is playing.
It includes all teeing locations on the course other than the teeing area and all wrong greens.

Of course the 'general area' effectively replaces 'through the green' which was confusing.

 

[clubchamp98]

Penalty areas are not just water hazards.

The course is larger than the general area. The general area is the area of the course that covers all of the course
except for the other four defined areas: (1) the teeing area (2) penalty areas, (3) all bunkers, and (4) the putting green of the hole the player is playing.
It includes all teeing locations on the course other than the teeing area and all wrong greens.

Of course the 'general area' effectively replaces 'through the green' which was confusing.

And you think just changing the name will make it clearer?
It’s just the same with a different name.
They could have changed the rules , let us get used to them before changing the names of everything until next January.

 

[rulie]

And you think just changing the name will make it clearer?
It’s just the same with a different name.
They could have changed the rules , let us get used to them before changing the names of everything until next January.

The Rules were re-written, including language, with some objectives, given that the Rules are translated into at least 30 languages:

• Be written in a modern, plain style that uses more common words, shorter sentences and explanatory headings, and that ends the use of male-only references;
• Be easier to translate into other languages;

I'm certain that translating (and understanding) "through the green" is much more difficult than "general area". Think more broadly!

 

[rulefan]

And you think just changing the name will make it clearer?
It’s just the same with a different name.
They could have changed the rules , let us get used to them before changing the names of everything until next January.

How does it make it clearer by having areas that don't contain water being covered by a rule that is called "Water Hazards (Including Lateral Water Hazards)"