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Penalty for Lowry

KenL

KenL

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I heard on bbc highlights that Lowry has been given a 2 shot penalty for moving his ball with a practice swing.

Assume he didn’t receive the penalty for playing from the wrong place (or be dq’d) as he didn’t obtain any advantage?
 
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I thought if you move the ball with a practice swing accidentally you have to put it back where it was?

If you don’t it’s from a wrong place.
 
From what I saw, the Committee needed to decide these things before assessing a penalty:
1. the ball moved, not just oscillated
2. the movement was discernible to the naked eye, not just sophisticated equipment
3. the player caused the ball to move.

In Lowry's case, the ball moved about 1/2 inch from its original spot in long grass after he took a practice swing relatively close (6 inches?) to the ball. He did not strike the ball with the practice swing and was not aware it had moved, hence did not replace the ball before making his stroke. It is a penalty for playing from a wrong place - see the Exception to Rule 1.3c(4).
 
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Serious breach doesn't come into it..

1 stroke penalty for moving the ball which must then be replaced. If not replaced a further penally for playing from a wrong place. That penalty is normally two strokes but in this instance for moving the ball and not replacing, the total penalty is two strokes. See the last sentence of Rule 9.4b
 
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I know some will say “rules are rules” but this sort of thing (to me) is why a lot of non golfers think that golf is a bit stuck up with too many stupid rules. To the outsider, the ball didn’t move, there was no advantage so why a penalty. No wonder people are put off golf and those of us who play don’t know all(enough?) of the rules.
 
Neilds said:
I know some will say “rules are rules” but this sort of thing (to me) is why a lot of non golfers think that golf is a bit stuck up with too many stupid rules. To the outsider, the ball didn’t move, there was no advantage so why a penalty. No wonder people are put off golf and those of us who play don’t know all(enough?) of the rules.
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Unless I'm imagining it, it looks like it's sinks down. If it took super slow and uhd to spot then yes it's be daft but in this instance it seems fair enough, it's not like it's a little known rule .
 
KenL said:
It is clear that Lowery didn’t see it happen. Nobody did see it happen live. He gained zero advantage. If the camera wasn’t there it would have passed unnoticed.
This is like VAR for golf.
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So you you're suggesting that if the golfer doesn't see it , then it didn't happen ? Theyve tightened up the armchair refs and as with most things rules based people are quick to offer an option but no real solution on how theys fix it.
 
I've only seen the brief clip posted in this thread.
I had to replay it multiple times to me persuade myself that the ball might have moved a tiny bit, but I'm still not convinced. The fact it was out of focus at the start doesn't help.

Presumably those who imposed the penalty had far better evidence. Even then it seems incredible that it got noticed. Does the R&A have an army of people constantly reviewing video to try and find these tiny transgressions?

Perhaps it's time for the next round of rules updates to state that if a ball is accidentally moved there's no penalty unless it moves more than, say, 3 inches. It's not like there's no precedent: anyone know why the penalty for accidently moving your ball on the green was removed?
 
cliveb said:
I've only seen the brief clip posted in this thread.
I had to replay it multiple times to me persuade myself that the ball might have moved a tiny bit, but I'm still not convinced. The fact it was out of focus at the start doesn't help.

Presumably those who imposed the penalty had far better evidence. Even then it seems incredible that it got noticed. Does the R&A have an army of people constantly reviewing video to try and find these tiny transgressions?

Perhaps it's time for the next round of rules updates to state that if a ball is accidentally moved there's no penalty unless it moves more than, say, 3 inches. It's not like there's no precedent: anyone know why the penalty for accidently moving your ball on the green was removed?
Click to expand...
I wonder if the 3 inches would be as elastic as the 3 minutes search time?
 
For me the issue is that if this had happened to, say, Migliozzi, it wouldn't have been assessed as a penalty because nobody would have seen it and no camera would have been watching him to get a close up slow motion view.
Shane has accepted the penalty, although he's not convinced, gracefully but, in my view, they need to keep the cameras at a distance to level the playing field.
No close ups while a shot is being prepared or made....
If the ball moves and is seen by the player or an official then penalise but keep it fair to everyone.
 
OK, so I see my suggestion that not imposing a penalty for accidentally moving a ball a very small amount has been met with derision.
Fair enough, I appreciate it might be difficult to enforce.

But can someone please answer me this: why is there no longer a penalty if you accidentally move your ball on the green? What makes that situation different?
 
It's interesting that the movement occurs during the practice backswing, not the downswing, so it's probably the movement of Lowry on the ground that causes it rather than the swinging of club.
I realise that doesn't affect the penalty here but, in general terms, how are we supposed to approach our ball to play it if it's resting on an unstable raft of ground or grass?
Don't say, "Carefully."
 
It was the practice swing that makes the ball move, there was a long straw blade of grass 6-8 inches long that was under the ball and the other end was moved by the practice swing which caused the ball to move, not a lot about half an inch
 
cliveb said:
OK, so I see my suggestion that not imposing a penalty for accidentally moving a ball a very small amount has been met with derision.
Fair enough, I appreciate it might be difficult to enforce.

But can someone please answer me this: why is there no longer a penalty if you accidentally move your ball on the green? What makes that situation different?
Click to expand...
Good point, and that was a good decision.
 
Steve Wilkes said:
It was the practice swing that makes the ball move, there was a long straw blade of grass 6-8 inches long that was under the ball and the other end was moved by the practice swing which caused the ball to move, not a lot about half an inch
Click to expand...
I see that slight movement start when he's at the top of his practice backswing.
 
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