P&O

[Foxholer]

...
As for P & O, I absolutely agree people will continue to travel with them. Fare paying passengers invariably don’t look beyond the cost, and certainly won’t consider the company’s lack of morals when booking a cheap crossing.

I have no doubt that people will still use P&O because they will provide cheap travel across the channel - many people won’t care about their actions because people will just look at what cost savings they can make

Remember that P&O Cruises - the travel company - is nothing to do with P&O Freight (the company that did this obscene bit of industrial relations). They are completely separate companies owned by completely separate companies. Their only connection is that they used to be part(s) of the same company (P&O).

 

[Ethan]

Clearly it must be that P&O don’t have any EU resource that they want to replace - or maybe they don’t actually have any…with all EU-based being non-EU registered or something like that ?

The staff fired were contacted according to UK law. Those on the Belfast-Liverpool line are contracted under Dutch law and are not being fired. Those hired under Irish law are not being fired.

 

[BubbaP]

Seems like the picture still isn't fully clear.

BBC news story yesterday :
"Some of P&O's ferries are registered in Cyprus, meaning they do not have to pay the minimum wage required by UK law."

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The staff fired were contacted according to UK law. Those on the Belfast-Liverpool line are contracted under Dutch law and are not being fired. Those hired under Irish law are not being fired.

Ah right…nuff said… Rather explains the silence of others…?

 

[Voyager EMH]

I don't know how Dutch and Irish employment law differs from ours but...

There is no enforcement of UK employment law. There is no Employment Law watchdog or agency to enforce the law.
The only system we have is Employment Tribunals.
If you find that your employer has breached employment law you must take them to a tribunal.
Who fancies taking one's employer to court while still working for them? I did that once.

P&O know whether they have breached the law or not. Even if they know that they have, it has not deterred them from doing so.
The former employees must take the Employment Tribunal route for there to be any redress. If they seek to do this in a collective action, it could take a couple of years to organise.
Successful action will result in re-instatement or any financial compensation that the court finds appropriate. The £££ compensation will not exceed money that was due in wages, accrued holiday pay and payment in lieu of notice. The tribunal has no power to award more than this for "wrongdoing". The length of time and anguish that such action takes is just not worth it. I know this from experience. Far better to deploy one's energy and time in seeking alternative employment.
Re-instatement? Who wants to go back and work for an employer who has just treated you like a piece of poo on the bottom of a shoe?

UK employment law stinks.
Not so much the regulations themselves, but the fact that there is no enforcement and no penalties imposed on employers for breaches of the law.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't know how Dutch and Irish employment law differs from ours but...

There is no enforcement of UK employment law. There is no Employment Law watchdog or agency to enforce the law.
The only system we have is Employment Tribunals.
If you find that your employer has breached employment law you must take them to a tribunal.
Who fancies taking one's employer to court while still working for them? I did that once.

P&O know whether they have breached the law or not. Even if they know that they have, it has not deterred them from doing so.
The former employees must take the Employment Tribunal route for there to be any redress. If they seek to do this in a collective action, it could take a couple of years to organise.
Successful action will result in re-instatement or any financial compensation that the court finds appropriate. The £££ compensation will not exceed money that was due in wages, accrued holiday pay and payment in lieu of notice. The tribunal has no power to award more than this for "wrongdoing". The length of time and anguish that such action takes is just not worth it. I know this from experience. Far better to deploy one's energy and time in seeking alternative employment.
Re-instatement? Who wants to go back and work for an employer who has just treated you like a piece of poo on the bottom of a shoe?

UK employment law stinks.
Not so much the regulations themselves, but the fact that there is no enforcement and no penalties imposed on employers for breaches of the law.

We hear today that the government is taking legal action against P&O.

 

[Mudball]

We hear today that the government is taking legal action against P&O.

The boss said he thinks that P&O has broken the law.... so you can expect they broke the law..

 

[greenone]

They wouldn't be offering what they are offering if they were following the law. They are just trying to take the short term hit in the expectation that it will blow over and it will go back to normal in a couple of months with a vastly reduced wage bill.

 

[greenone]

On the Larne to cairnryan route the ferry would never leave British territorial waters so would have thought international maritime law would not come in to it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The boss said he thinks that P&O has broken the law.... so you can expect they broke the law..

I heard comment today that the need to provide 45days notice, as was earlier cited as the basis for court action, did not apply to P&O and their UK staff. I do not know if this is the case.

 

[Ethan]

The boss said he thinks that P&O has broken the law.... so you can expect they broke the law..

When would he ever tell a porkie?

 

[Foxholer]

The boss said he thinks that P&O has broken the law.... so you can expect they broke the law..

I very much doubt that there is actual 'law-breaking'. Taken to the limit perhaps, but reports of sizeable (apparently some >£100k) payoffs (redundancy deals) indicate that the wording of that obscenely presented announcement 'your last day of work for P&O Freight' was, indeed, not the whole story - with redundancy deal(s) to be handled later. The company likely preferred to deal with it that way than have unhappy crew members on board during their 'notice period'.

 

[Foxholer]

They wouldn't be offering what they are offering if they were following the law. They are just trying to take the short term hit in the expectation that it will blow over and it will go back to normal in a couple of months with a vastly reduced wage bill.

Given that they lost 100m last year, 86m the year before (both Covid affected) and (just under) 40m in 2019, it would need to be a heck of a wage bill reduction!
FWIW. The bit in bold makes no sense - to me!

 

[Robster59]

I wonder if the management have taken any wage hit?

 

[rudebhoy]

I very much doubt that there is actual 'law-breaking'. Taken to the limit perhaps, but reports of sizeable (apparently some >£100k) payoffs (redundancy deals) indicate that the wording of that obscenely presented announcement 'your last day of work for P&O Freight' was, indeed, not the whole story - with redundancy deal(s) to be handled later. The company likely preferred to deal with it that way than have unhappy crew members on board during their 'notice period'.

40 staff out of 800 are getting 100k payouts. Some are getting 15k.

 

[Foxholer]

We hear today that the government is taking legal action against P&O.

The boss said he thinks that P&O has broken the law.... so you can expect they broke the law..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60849957

 

[Mudball]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60849957

Aah.. the death of sarcasm...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And listening to an employment lawyer last night, if there has been law-breaking by P&O on this then it would be for the Trades Unions to initiate the court action and not the government…oh the irony of that on more than one front.

 

[chrisd]

They are just trying to take the short term hit in the expectation that it will blow over and it will go back to normal in a couple of months with a vastly reduced wage bill.

As it will do. Most of the lorries are continental fleets and drivers. Their bosses will take the cheapest crossing available which is quite understandable given it's another country's issue.

 

[Mudball]

And listening to an employment lawyer last night, if there has been law-breaking by P&O on this then it would be for the Trades Unions to initiate the court action and not the government…oh the irony of that on more than one front.

I think you should abandon this line of enquiry, trying to show this as incompetence or result of Big events, will only sink your ship against the 'political post' iceberg.. focus on current events only and dont bring into it the wider context.