Out of Curiosity

[cookelad]

With another lost ball/provisional thread going on I don't want to hijack for a theoretical so I'll start my own!

Par 3, green isn't visible from the tee, tee shot is hit and is missing the green towards thick rough/trees/etc so a provisional is played and incredibly enough goes in the hole, when the player arrives at the green he finds his first ball within a few feet of the hole (members bounce no doubt!) and his provisional ball in the hole.

Should the player putt out for his 2 or does holing out his provisional ball take his original ball out of play?

(Sorry if this has been done before)

 

[Imurg]

Original ball is still in play unless the 2nd ball wasn't declared a provo....

 

[williamalex1]

Has to play his first ball, but still buy everyone a drink for the hole in 1 [3] with his provisional :smirk:

 

[backwoodsman]

Play the original ball. Decision 27-2b/2

Q. At a short hole, A's tee shot may be out of bounds or lost, so he plays a provisional ball, which he holes. A does not wish to look for his original ball. B, A's opponent or a fellow-competitor, goes to look for the original ball. When does the provisional ball become the ball in play?

A. In equity (Rule 1-4) the provisional ball becomes the ball in play as soon as A picks it out of the hole, provided his original ball has not already been found in bounds within five minutes of B starting to search for it. (underline is mine)

 

[woody69]

Surely in this instance he would want to play his original anyway as he has a chance of a birdie, where as the provisional would only give him a 3?

 

[Slab]

Does it depend in what order he identifies the balls?

As the green is not visible from tee he wont know which is which when approaching (he wont even know one is holed) but if he spots and removes the provisional from the hole to ID it before identifying the one on the green then is it a 3?

 

[Val]

Something tells me it's a three as a provisonal ball becomes the ball in play if it's holed? Or words to that effect

 

[Slab]

Something tells me it's a three as a provisonal ball becomes the ball in play if it's holed? Or words to that effect

The prov becomes the ball in play when extracted from the hole (which prompts my added Q)
But given the original was in fact 'found' within 5 mins but possibly not identified then is the original in play or not?




Edit: anyone else get the feeling that Colin, Duncan & Rulefan are sitting in a corner laughing at us
(apologies to the other rules experts I've missed)

 

[rulefan]

Nice question. It feels like standing over a three footer for the club championship and everyone hanging over the veranda railings waiting for the fluffed putt.

As a ball has been found on the green within 5 minutes it must be identified. The rule doesn't say 'before any other action is taken'. The player may identify it after lifting the provisional from the hole. So the proviso in the decision applies.

 

[williamalex1]

Nice question. It feels like standing over a three footer for the club championship and everyone hanging over the veranda railings waiting for the fluffed putt.

As a ball has been found on the green within 5 minutes it must be identified. The rule doesn't say 'before any other action is taken'. The player may identify it after lifting the provisional from the hole. So the proviso in the decision applies.

Gobbledigook :smirk:

 

[Imurg]

If there's a ball visible on the green you would automatically go to that first and identify it wouldn't you..?
If you had to walk past the hole to get to it, you shouldn't be able to look in the hole as you shouldn't be walking that close to the hole anyway...

 

[Colin L]

Has to play his first ball, but still buy everyone a drink for the hole in 1 [3] with his provisional :smirk:

Without doubt, not only an accurate answer in the first part, but by far the best one for its second part.

Mine will be a large G&T, thank you.

 

[williamalex1]

Without doubt, not only an accurate answer in the first part, but by far the best one for its second part.

Mine will be a large G&T, thank you.

May arrange that someday.:thup:

 

[Colin L]

Nice question. It feels like standing over a three footer for the club championship and everyone hanging over the veranda railings waiting for the fluffed putt.

As a ball has been found on the green within 5 minutes it must be identified. The rule doesn't say 'before any other action is taken'. The player may identify it after lifting the provisional from the hole. So the proviso in the decision applies.

Gobbledigook :smirk:

All Rulefan is saying is that even if you first lift your PB out of the hole and then identify your original ball, you play your original because it has been found within five minutes. As Imurg says, however, that sequence of events seems unlikely.

On a different and somewhat pointless tack, it seems curious that Decision 27-2b/2 says that the PB becomes the ball in play when picked out of the hole. Since the Decision is saying that the act of picking it out means that the ball is holed if the OB hasn't yet been found, how can a holed ball be said to be in play? I see why it is worded that way, but it does seem anomalous.

 

[williamalex1]

All Rulefan is saying is that even if you first lift your PB out of the hole and then identify your original ball, you play your original because it has been found within five minutes. As Imurg says, however, that sequence of events seems unlikely.

On a different and somewhat pointless tack, it seems curious that Decision 27-2b/2 says that the PB becomes the ball in play when picked out of the hole. Since the Decision is saying that the act of picking it out means that the ball is holed if the OB hasn't yet been found, how can a holed ball be said to be in play? I see why it is worded that way, but it does seem anomalous.

Refer to post 10. im out.:thup:

 

[Colin L]

I don't blame you. Gobbledegook, not at all! But I'll grant you that second paragraph of mine is just a tad arcane.

 

[williamalex1]

I don't blame you. Gobbledegook, not at all! But I'll grant you that second paragraph of mine is just a tad arcane.

The drink is still on tap.:cheers: