Orikoru's Swing Thread (with videos)

[Deleted member 36735]

@Eesat 90210 Sorry, I wasn't sure what point you were making? Are you suggesting I do something different on the practise vs real swing? If so I can't spot it - I thought they were both pretty equally bad.

Sorry I didn't add anything because I thought the pics would explain.

Just look at the difference in where the club is, on the practice swing the club is always inside the target line and swung around your body. In the real swing it's more up and down, the clubhead is way outside the target line on the way to the ball so we can see there's only one way for it to go and that's from right to left across the ball. If the face is open to that you'll have a big, weak slice.

Imagine football: in the practice swing your right foot is curling the ball around the wall with the instep into the top corner, in the real swing you're slicing a volley away from the goal towards the right corner flag.
Or think tennis, the practice swing is a forehand down the right sideline that curls back into the court, the real swing is a sliced volley that drifts out of the court to the right.

 

[Orikoru]

If my swing wasn't so ugly I'd post it on here and we could do a side by side. It would be like when Dan Burn used to walk alongside Ryan Fraser at Newcastle games . I have half a swing, you have a swing and a bit extra . I admire it for your flexibility alone

How have I gone from this (click) to that though?? Can't I just have something halfway between the two, is that too much to ask?

 

[Orikoru]

Sorry I didn't add anything because I thought the pics would explain.

Just look at the difference in where the club is, on the practice swing the club is always inside the target line and swung around your body. In the real swing it's more up and down, the clubhead is way outside the target line on the way to the ball so we can see there's only one way for it to go and that's from right to left across the ball. If the face is open to that you'll have a big, weak slice.

Imagine football: in the practice swing your right foot is curling the ball around the wall with the instep into the top corner, in the real swing you're slicing a volley away from the goal towards the right corner flag.
Or think tennis, the practice swing is a forehand down the right sideline that curls back into the court, the real swing is a sliced volley that drifts out of the court to the right.

You really thought the path was better on the practise swing? I thought that might be an optical illusion given that the ball is sitting outside of the swing at that point. Not saying that the practice isn't a little different of course, I'm sure that is true for lots of people.

 

[Deleted member 36735]

You really thought the path was better on the practise swing? I thought that might be an optical illusion given that the ball is sitting outside of the swing at that point.

Yes you make a good point but also yes I really do.
The practice is a rotation of the club around the body and the clubface rotates, the real swing is more of a chop which explains the drives you say you have trouble with.

 

[garyinderry]

Change is hard. Not impossible but certainly a difficult thing to do.

You know what you want to do. You know how you'd like it to look.
The thing is... its really really bloody hard to just take a practice swing. Think you have the feeling you want in your head, then actually execute the change.

Check the range on tour and you will see all manner of gizmos and gadgets along with 20k trackmans to prove the feels are actually happening along with watching it on film.

You need to get that cane down by the ball to stop you taking it outside straight off the bat. A small box can be used to help with path etc.
Those elbows could be strapped together like Steve striker used to do. If not physically then try doing it mentally.

The best thing you can do is break the swing down. Doing full speed swings rarely works.
You need to drill the take away. Then get a feel for the hip turn. That still needs work. Training the body the new positions is the only way to achieve them. It's extremely difficult to just think your way to the new positions. Feel where you want the club half way back and certainly feel where you would like it to be at the top. Your flying right elbow and cupped wrist have got you feeling like John daly. If you got them under control the look of your backswing would tighten up.

Along with these positions you would ideally like to be in. You then could work on transition and downswing. You must have seen the pump drills where people get to the top of the swing then pump down a few times before fully letting the downswing happen.

A load of iron shoulder height to shoulder height practice swings would help tighten up the swing. Do 10 of them before hitting each ball. Think tommy fleetwood.

Getting the most out of your practice doesn't involve 100+ balls. Getting reps in with practice swings is key. Trains the body without over doing it. Swing those slowly to rewire that brain.

Maybe some drills to work on could be the next thing if you are into that kind of thing.

Keep going with this. It's only early February. You could make great changes before the season kicks off.

 

[BobbyA]

I have the same issue with driver, and an over the top swing.

I had a lesson for it and i was simply told to focus on getting my left shoulder over my right foot in the back swing. Bam, went from week slices to little draws, hitting it the same distance with smaller swings.

Easiest money the pro has earned but sometimes its the simple things that help make a change. The reason you are coming over the top could be different to me, but if you find a good pro who can easily diagnose the 'Why' its a lot easier to get the 'How'

Now I just need to try and replicate that swing on the course which of course is a lot harder then the range but I now know the feel and can work on it

Go and find a good pro, he literally helped me in 30 seconds.

Before on the right and after is on the left in the picture. See how the club is now travelling from the inside.

 

[Orikoru]

I have the same issue with driver, and an over the top swing.

I had a lesson for it and i was simply told to focus on getting my left shoulder over my right foot in the back swing. Bam, went from week slices to little draws, hitting it the same distance with smaller swings.

Easiest money the pro has earned but sometimes its the simple things that help make a change. The reason you are coming over the top could be different to me, but if you find a good pro who can easily diagnose the 'Why' its a lot easier to get the 'How'

Now I just need to try and replicate that swing on the course which of course is a lot harder then the range but I now know the feel and can work on it

Go and find a good pro, he literally helped me in 30 seconds.

Before on the right and after is on the left in the picture. See how the club is now travelling from the inside.

Thanks. I think my massive overswing on the way back is a huge factor, from that position it makes sense that I would pull the club over my right shoulder a bit and swing over-the-top and out-to-in.

I'm going to try and get to the range again tomorrow and just hit half-swings to start with, because whatever I was doing that felt like I was shortening the swing has clearly not worked at all. I wouldn't be surprised if whatever a 'half swing' feels like ends up being 90% of a full one. Given that I'm currently at 150%.

 

[garyinderry]

Thanks. I think my massive overswing on the way back is a huge factor, from that position it makes sense that I would pull the club over my right shoulder a bit and swing over-the-top and out-to-in.

I'm going to try and get to the range again tomorrow and just hit half-swings to start with, because whatever I was doing that felt like I was shortening the swing has clearly not worked at all. I wouldn't be surprised if whatever a 'half swing' feels like ends up being 90% of a full one. Given that I'm currently at 150%.

Good luck tomorrow. Fair play lad. You are putting in the work.

Just jumped into the garage to give you a few pointers on how to manage that take away and also how to control the lenght of your backswing.

Working on those individual parts of the swing is easier than hoping it all works in one motion. Drill those parts over and over inbetween hitting balls. Get the rehearsals on film so you can see if you are doing it better.

Hope this helps. This is what this part of the forum was invented for. Kudos for putting yourself in the spotlight. Grind now and reap the rewards in the summer.

 

[Orikoru]

Good luck tomorrow. Fair play lad. You are putting in the work.

Just jumped into the garage to give you a few pointers on how to manage that take away and also how to control the lenght of your backswing.

Working on those individual parts of the swing is easier than hoping it all works in one motion. Drill those parts over and over inbetween hitting balls. Get the rehearsals on film so you can see if you are doing it better.

Hope this helps. This is what this part of the forum was invented for. Kudos for putting yourself in the spotlight. Grind now and reap the rewards in the summer.

Yeah, thanks again mate. Will try and tighten the elbows up and stop the overswing.

I'm realising now why people say the best thing you can do is video your practice. What we think we're doing and what's actually happening are completely different.

 

[garyinderry]

Yeah, thanks again mate. Will try and tighten the elbows up and stop the overswing.

I'm realising now why people say the best thing you can do is video your practice. What we think we're doing and what's actually happening are completely different.

For sure. Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

[MACM85]

Good luck tomorrow. Fair play lad. You are putting in the work.

Just jumped into the garage to give you a few pointers on how to manage that take away and also how to control the lenght of your backswing.

Working on those individual parts of the swing is easier than hoping it all works in one motion. Drill those parts over and over inbetween hitting balls. Get the rehearsals on film so you can see if you are doing it better.

Hope this helps. This is what this part of the forum was invented for. Kudos for putting yourself in the spotlight. Grind now and reap the rewards in the summer.

This should have come with subtitles for the members not used to the N Irish accent!

Solid tip and advice though

 

[garyinderry]

This should have come with subtitles for the members not used to the N Irish accent!

Solid tip and advice though

the captions function on YouTube does work but it does get confused now and again.

 

[BobbyA]

So I played 9 holes today and used the driver 5 times, 2 were started straight and curved left ending on left side of the fairway, two were straight pushed to the right, one in the rough, one edge of fairway and one drive straight down the middle. None had any right sided spin. So it seems the new move I've been given is helping. I just need to turn the big draw or push into a nice draw by closing the club face the correct amount. The new move has moved my path more in to out. @Orikoru my advice is find a good pro who can assist you move your path more neutral.

 

[#NotTigerWoods]

Update

So here's me with driver again today. This honestly feels like I'm taking the club away so far behind me. Whereas on video, it maybe looks a tiny bit different to before?? This is how I was swinging at the weekend when I actually drove it quite well. It feels like this is the most I can turn without being so far round I might as well be blindfolded. The third shot on the video was the best in terms of resulting direction and flight.

The one thing that's really annoying me watching it back though is why the hell is my backswing SO LONG?? I am not feeling that at all, I'm trying to keep it shorter but it looks absolutely wild. I used to have such a short swing, but now I'm swinging like John bloody Daly and can't seem to do a thing about it. I'm genuinely really trying to shorten it but it does what it wants. Baffling.

8 iron here - I don't think any change is visible really, trying to do the same as above and make sure I turn and keep my backswing inside, but for what it's worth I struck these pretty well and I don't feel like I have a big problem with irons at the moment. Again though, the only annoying thing is that I think I'm trying to shorten my backswing and yet it is absolutely massive.

@garyinderry @Springveldt


I really think if I can shorten my backswing to a more normal place, then everything will sort of fall into place and I'll have an acceptable driver swing. But I don't know how to do that clearly.

@Orikoru repeating previous advice from a couple weeks back. Trust me I'm a swing doctor.

....Just need a couple drills to help you get the feeling of more rotation and right leg stability.

Ready, here goes...

Step 1:
Take your setup and raise your clubhead up as if you are hitting off an imaginary very high tee, lets say a 2 feet high. Sounds ridiculous but trust me.

Step 2:
Now swing back to the top of your backswing only thinking of keeping the flex in your right knee. Do this a few times and you will feel what rotation feels like as opposed to tilt.

Step 3:
Now go ahead and make full swings at this same height only concentrating on the right knee on the backswing. You should soon feel more compact and explosive through the air.

Step 4:
Now lower your imaginary tee to 1 foot high and do a few more full swings.(remember right knee)

Step 5:
Put a real ball on Driver height tee and hit a few shots, still only thinking of right knee. Not easy to do but its all part of the plan. Deep breaths!!

Step 6:
Now put the ball on a low tee and do the same thing a few times. Aah, much easier!!

Step 7: Put the ball on the deck and do thing same thing a few times

Rinse and repeat

Ps: One raised up practice swing can be used on the course to great effect for rotation and flow. Many great pros have used it over the years.

Look forward to hearing feedback after your next session

Cheers

 

[Beezerk]

@garyinderry
I'm digging those slipper

 

[garyinderry]

@garyinderry
I'm digging those slipper

I do love my sketchers

 

[Springveldt]

Update

So here's me with driver again today. This honestly feels like I'm taking the club away so far behind me. Whereas on video, it maybe looks a tiny bit different to before?? This is how I was swinging at the weekend when I actually drove it quite well. It feels like this is the most I can turn without being so far round I might as well be blindfolded. The third shot on the video was the best in terms of resulting direction and flight.

The one thing that's really annoying me watching it back though is why the hell is my backswing SO LONG?? I am not feeling that at all, I'm trying to keep it shorter but it looks absolutely wild. I used to have such a short swing, but now I'm swinging like John bloody Daly and can't seem to do a thing about it. I'm genuinely really trying to shorten it but it does what it wants. Baffling.

8 iron here - I don't think any change is visible really, trying to do the same as above and make sure I turn and keep my backswing inside, but for what it's worth I struck these pretty well and I don't feel like I have a big problem with irons at the moment. Again though, the only annoying thing is that I think I'm trying to shorten my backswing and yet it is absolutely massive.

@garyinderry @Springveldt


I really think if I can shorten my backswing to a more normal place, then everything will sort of fall into place and I'll have an acceptable driver swing. But I don't know how to do that clearly.

I think your backswing is so long because you are letting your left arm come right across your chest, especially early in your backswing.



Have a look here, look how far your left arm is across your chest yet your shoulders and hips have hardly rotated. By the time you get to the top, you have rotated your shoulders but it looks like your left arm is about to lock in a choke hold.



I know none of us will ever swing it like Rory but look at Rory's rotation by the time his arm gets to your position in the first image, notice that you can see the buttons on his polo shirt already while yours are probably still pointing at the ball under the gilet. Also note how much more shoulder tilt he has than you. Stopping that left arm collapsing across your body will help immensely. It's an illusion that the left arm comes across the chest in the backswing, it's just the pro's rotate that much that it seems like it does, they actually barely move it and it's the shoulder pushing out that make it look like they've moved their arm.




As usual, Athletic Motion Golf have a great video on this.

 

[Orikoru]

I think your backswing is so long because you are letting your left arm come right across your chest, especially early in your backswing.

View attachment 56986

Have a look here, look how far your left arm is across your chest yet your shoulders and hips have hardly rotated. By the time you get to the top, you have rotated your shoulders but it looks like your left arm is about to lock in a choke hold.

View attachment 56987

I know none of us will ever swing it like Rory but look at Rory's rotation by the time his arm gets to your position in the first image, notice that you can see the buttons on his polo shirt already while yours are probably still pointing at the ball under the gilet. Also note how much more shoulder tilt he has than you. Stopping that left arm collapsing across your body will help immensely. It's an illusion that the left arm comes across the chest in the backswing, it's just the pro's rotate that much that it seems like it does, they actually barely move it and it's the shoulder pushing out that make it look like they've moved their arm.

View attachment 56990


As usual, Athletic Motion Golf have a great video on this.

Thanks. Sounds silly I think somewhere in the back of my mind I've always been a bit scared to turn too much on the way back in case I miss the ball coming back. Or maybe subconsciously that's why a lot of amateurs don't turn enough, I don't know.

After Gary's advice about my right elbow flying out, I did another set last Thursday where I focussed on that. I think trying to keep the elbow tucked in improved a few other things as a knock-on effect. e.g. backswing wasn't as long as I can't physically swing it as long without the elbow flying out - and maybe the turn is a little better? Not sure.

 

[Springveldt]

Thanks. Sounds silly I think somewhere in the back of my mind I've always been a bit scared to turn too much on the way back in case I miss the ball coming back. Or maybe subconsciously that's why a lot of amateurs don't turn enough, I don't know.

After Gary's advice about my right elbow flying out, I did another set last Thursday where I focussed on that. I think trying to keep the elbow tucked in improved a few other things as a knock-on effect. e.g. backswing wasn't as long as I can't physically swing it as long without the elbow flying out - and maybe the turn is a little better? Not sure.

Definitely looks better, it's also helping stop that left arm come over the chest as much. If you haven't watched that AMG video, find 20 minute to, it's a real eye opener. It will basically feel like you are pushing your hands away from your body on the backswing, not bringing them over the chest.

You turn plenty with your shoulders by the end of your backswing, I just think you need to do it earlier while feeling like you are pushing your hands away. My takeaway feel is feeling a stretch in my left lat before my hands get anywhere near parallel. Having that feeling with keeping the feeling of the right elbow being tucked in or pointing more towards the ground will help you loads I think.

 

[Orikoru]

Definitely looks better, it's also helping stop that left arm come over the chest as much. If you haven't watched that AMG video, find 20 minute to, it's a real eye opener. It will basically feel like you are pushing your hands away from your body on the backswing, not bringing them over the chest.

You turn plenty with your shoulders by the end of your backswing, I just think you need to do it earlier while feeling like you are pushing your hands away. My takeaway feel is feeling a stretch in my left lat before my hands get anywhere near parallel. Having that feeling with keeping the feeling of the right elbow being tucked in or pointing more towards the ground will help you loads I think.

Funny you should say, that was pretty much an exact thought I had on my round yesterday - with the new elbow position I have to make sure I don't just collapse my arms on the way back. Have to feel like I'm actually reaching away from my body. I've added that vid to my watch list so I'll have a look later on.