Opponent taking the flag out without me asking - what's the rule??

[Six]

So I played a bounce game this morning against a friend, and we were all square on the 18th green. I had about a 20ft putt to win the game, and my putt went dead centre for the hole but just as it was about to hit the pin dead on my friend pulled the flag. The ball hit the back of the hole and flicked up to rest about an inch out of the cup. I didn't ask him to tend or remove the flag.

We both agreed that it would have (probably) dropped in if he hadn't pulled the flag, because it was dead in the middle of the hole, and wasn't travelling that fast - but obviously we couldn't be sure. We just put it down to experience and I tapped in the putt to draw the game.

If this was a proper match, what would the ruling be? I guess he'd get a penalty of some kind for interfering with my shot, but would I also have to retake the putt?

 

[BTatHome]

If you were on the green (which you implied) then he saved YOU getting a penalty for hitting the pin.

The only penalty he could of received is if he tended the pin and left it in when it hit the pin.

 

[Six]

If you were on the green (which you implied) then he saved YOU getting a penalty for hitting the pin.

The only penalty he could of received is if he tended the pin and left it in when it hit the pin.

Really? Had no idea your putt wasn't allowed to hit the pin if you wanted it left in!

 

[bobmac]

I'll put the coffee on

 

[BTatHome]

Really? Had no idea your putt wasn't allowed to hit the pin if you wanted it left in!

If your ON the green then it's either taken out or tended. If tended then it should be removed when you've hit your putt.

 

[BTatHome]

I'll put the coffee on

So long as we dont get onto tending the flag and purposely leaving it in for the ball to it, then we should be done now

 

[bigslice]

I'll put the coffee on

:blah::blah:ne:

 

[chrisd]

I will join you for coffee Bob - someones bound to do the " if he pulled the flag out and the liner came with it and the ball hit the liner" posting ! :whoo:

 

[bobmac]

Does this apply or not ?
If an opponent or his caddie in match play or a fellow-competitor or his caddie in stroke play, without the player’s authority or prior knowledge, attends the flagstick during the stroke or while the ball is in motion, and the act might influence the movement of the ball, the opponent or fellow-competitor incurs the applicable penalty

 

[Kellfire]

If he was stood near the flag do the rules not state that the attendance is assumed?

 

[duncan mackie]

Does this apply or not ?
If an opponent or his caddie in match play or a fellow-competitor or his caddie in stroke play, without the player’s authority or prior knowledge, attends the flagstick during the stroke or while the ball is in motion, and the act might influence the movement of the ball, the opponent or fellow-competitor incurs the applicable penalty

I thought you were putting the coffee on?

Indeed, as presented, the opponent looses the hole under 17-2 unless he was in some way deemed to be tending the flag by proximity prior to the stroke being made.

 

[humphry11]

I thought you were putting the coffee on?

Indeed, as presented, the opponent looses the hole under 17-2 unless he was in some way deemed to be tending the flag by proximity prior to the stroke being made.

I would have thought this ruling only applies if the ball is off the green?

 

[stevelev]

I only drink tea, 2 sugars please

 

[duncan mackie]

I would have thought this ruling only applies if the ball is off the green?

a good question, and I can understand the basis.

however, the note to rule 17-2's penalty clause tells us that if such a breach occurs on the putting green in stroke play the penalty is still assessed on the FC and competitor is required to cancel the shot and replay.

it applies to both strokes from on and off the green.

 

[DaveM]

Are we finished now????????

 

[mouth]

I only drink tea, 2 sugars please

Milk?

 

[RGDave]

If you were on the green (which you implied) then he saved YOU getting a penalty for hitting the pin.

That's my understanding too.

Incidentally, is it legal to putt with the flag in if you are lagging the ball up, for example? (accepting the risk of course)

 

[duncan mackie]

That's my understanding too.

Incidentally, is it legal to putt with the flag in if you are lagging the ball up, for example? (accepting the risk of course)

yes - but at a cost to him

yes - but at a risk to you

2 sugars please.....

 

[RGDave]

yes - but at a cost to him

yes - but at a risk to you

2 sugars please.....

Yes, I was thinking about time saving on a Sunday round.

Dodgy though.....

Can I have a digestive with mine, and plenty of milk.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I thought you were putting the coffee on?

Indeed, as presented, the opponent looses the hole under 17-2 unless he was in some way deemed to be tending the flag by proximity prior to the stroke being made.

I thought the rule was - You have to be holding the flag to be seen as attending it. If you just stand by it and dont have hold of it, you can't then grab it. Or words to that effect.

7 Hermesetas with mine, please. Just the 4 bourbons.