One for the plumbers amongst us...

[GreiginFife]

So, moving house just now and doing a bit of work (new bathroom etc) and part of this has been in the living room where once stood a 2.4m behemoth of a radiator. 600 x 2400 weighing in at about a metric tonne that was goosed.
Anyhow, yesterday I spent the day removing this giant to be replaced by two smaller nicer units, 600 x 600 Stelrad Softlines, reviews say they are decent.
Now each radiator in the house hasnt been bled fully yet, but the two new ones arent warming despite the inlet on the first new one getting warm and having been bled, cold water is getting through them. Hot water just doesnt seem to want to enter the rad, TRV set to 4.
How I set up was thusly, the old inlet pipe (that went to the old rad valve) has been installed to the new rad 1s TRV, the outlet from this new rads lockshield is piped to the TRV on new rad 2 and theoutlet from its lockshield is joined to the original outlet (the old rads lockshield).

Now my question is; is the set up right? Logically it makes sense to keep it flowing as a circuit. I have fitted plenty of rads over the last 2 years, but never split one in two like this.

Is it just a case the whole system needs bled? Its not a closed loop but is fed from a header tank in the attic.

Over to the experts please

 

[Deleted member 1740]

So, moving house just now and doing a bit of work (new bathroom etc) and part of this has been in the living room where once stood a 2.4m behemoth of a radiator. 600 x 2400 weighing in at about a metric tonne that was goosed.
Anyhow, yesterday I spent the day removing this giant to be replaced by two smaller nicer units, 600 x 600 Stelrad Softlines, reviews say they are decent.
Now each radiator in the house hasnt been bled fully yet, but the two new ones arent warming despite the inlet on the first new one getting warm and having been bled, cold water is getting through them. Hot water just doesnt seem to want to enter the rad, TRV set to 4.
How I set up was thusly, the old inlet pipe (that went to the old rad valve) has been installed to the new rad 1s TRV, the outlet from this new rads lockshield is piped to the TRV on new rad 2 and theoutlet from its lockshield is joined to the original outlet (the old rads lockshield).

Now my question is; is the set up right? Logically it makes sense to keep it flowing as a circuit. I have fitted plenty of rads over the last 2 years, but never split one in two like this.

Is it just a case the whole system needs bled? Its not a closed loop but is fed from a header tank in the attic.

Over to the experts please

Are all of the other radiators getting hot?



I

 

[GreiginFife]

Are all of the other radiators getting hot?



I

For the most part yes, although some needed bled. A couple arent hot (warm) but not really hot and I couldnt bleed them as the key for the new rads was too big.

 

[stevelev]

I would not have linked them like that I would lift the board and take and check if they are on a loop system (single pipe like a ring main) or if they have 2 pipes one feed one return. If the former, you may just need to rebalance the full system. If the latter the 2 trvs would cause a problem in the link
You may just need to tap into the feed pipe for each trv and run each lockshield to the return pipe

, I had a similar issue with a rad not working of the trv and it was as I plumbed it as it on a signle pipe instead of feed and return pipes

Im sure stu c will enlighten you if im wrong

 

[stevelev]

Are all of the other radiators getting hot?

I

See I told you he'd be on to it

 

[GreiginFife]

I would not have linked them like that I would lift the board and take and check if they are on a loop system (single pipe like a ring main) or if they have 2 pipes one feed one return. If the former, you may just need to rebalance the full system. If the latter the 2 trvs would cause a problem in the link
You may just need to tap into the feed pipe for each trv and run each lockshield to the return pipe

, I had a similar issue with a rad not working of the trv and it was as I plumbed it as it on a signle pipe instead of feed and return pipes

Im sure stu c will enlighten you if im wrong

It was one pipe in and one out. All radiators I have seen have a pipe in feeding hot water in and one out taking it to the next rad or to the boiler.

 

[GreiginFife]

I would not have linked them like that I would lift the board and take and check if they are on a loop system (single pipe like a ring main) or if they have 2 pipes one feed one return. If the former, you may just need to rebalance the full system. If the latter the 2 trvs would cause a problem in the link
You may just need to tap into the feed pipe for each trv and run each lockshield to the return pipe

, I had a similar issue with a rad not working of the trv and it was as I plumbed it as it on a signle pipe instead of feed and return pipes

Im sure stu c will enlighten you if im wrong

How would you have linked them?

 

[stevelev]

It was one pipe in and one out.

But under the floor how are the pipes run, is it just a single pipe or are there 2 pipes that the radiator is plumbed into?

 

[GreiginFife]

But under the floor how are the pipes run, is it just a single pipe or are there 2 pipes that the radiator is plumbed into?

Two pipes if you count one going to the old valve and then one coming from the old lockshield. Never seen one pipe radiators before.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I would not have linked them like that I would lift the board and take and check if they are on a loop system (single pipe like a ring main) or if they have 2 pipes one feed one return. If the former, you may just need to rebalance the full system. If the latter the 2 trvs would cause a problem in the link
You may just need to tap into the feed pipe for each trv and run each lockshield to the return pipe

, I had a similar issue with a rad not working of the trv and it was as I plumbed it as it on a signle pipe instead of feed and return pipes

Im sure stu c will enlighten you if im wrong

In theory you're correct re 1 pipe and 2 pipe systems.

Greg, you should've took the return pipe(outlet) back into the main circs then tee'd in further down for the 2nd one.

It sounds like you've connected the outlet of rad1 into the inlet of rad 2 is this correct?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Two pipes if you count one going to the old valve and then one coming from the old lockshield. Never seen one pipe radiators before.

One pipe systems are rare but they do exist.

 

[stevelev]

How would you have linked them?

I would take a feed to each trv from the flow/feed pipe and run the lockshield to the other pipe (return) under the floorboard. Then repeat for the second radiator.

 

[stevelev]

In theory you're correct re 1 pipe and 2 pipe systems.

Greg, you should've took the return pipe(outlet) back into the main circs then tee'd in further down for the 2nd one.

It sounds like you've connected the outlet of rad1 into the inlet of rad 2 is this correct?

Thats how I read it, linked them so they are not independantly fed and returned.

Im quite pleased with my figuring that out, not bad considering I learned my plumbing via google 10 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Turn off the rads that are hot and that should push the hot water around the ones that aren't, if that works you know it needs balancing. Otherwise it's probably just got a load of air inside the system

 

[GreiginFife]

In theory you're correct re 1 pipe and 2 pipe systems.

Greg, you should've took the return pipe(outlet) back into the main circs then tee'd in further down for the 2nd one.

It sounds like you've connected the outlet of rad1 into the inlet of rad 2 is this correct?

I have indeed fed one from the other. Thinking that it made a loop. So should I tee the two inlets to the two TRVs ans the two returns teed to the original return.

Would that stop the firt rad even warming?

 

[stevelev]

I have indeed fed one from the other. Thinking that it made a loop. So should I tee the two inlets to the two TRVs ans the two returns teed to the original return.

Would that stop the firt rad even warming?

that is correct, the pipe that fed the original trv or feed should have 2 tees going to the new trvs, then the 2 new lockshields should go to the return pipe
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7375/centralheatinglayoutimg.gif

 

[GreiginFife]

that is correct, the pipe that fed the original trv or feed should have 2 tees going to the new trvs, then the 2 new lockshields should go to the return pipe

One tee surely, splitting the main feed into 2 and likewise the return?

 

[stevelev]

One tee surely, splitting the main feed into 2 and likewise the return?

See link in my last post just edited as pic never showed up, ignore everything in the picture apart from how the pipes below the rads run, red is feed, blue return

 

[srixon 1]

Have you tried opening both trvs to full to see if the rads get hot then.

At the moment, if the room is warm enough and the first trv 'turns off' the radiator it will also stop the flow of water to the second radiator. You probably need to have the first radiator that is in the flow to be set to a higher temperature than the second radiator. When the room warms up the second rad will then go off before the first.

 

[GreiginFife]

See link in my last post just edited as pic never showed up, ignore everything in the picture apart from how the pipes below the rads run, red is feed, blue return

Cool, fantastisch mate. Neet to create feed and return for each one. Roger tht.