Numbers on golf clubs!

[Slab]

Not sure if the loft in itself will give us that buyers confidence though

I bought a TM stage2 25 degree 5-hybrid to fit under the distance of my four year old Cobra 22 degree 4-hybrid... unfortunately they go the same distance and have the same length shaft!

 

[Spuddy]

Putting aside the fact it was delc who started the thread (as I think there are many on here who simply take the polar opposite view he does because they don’t want to agree with him), I personally think it makes sense and would be a good idea to have an industry standard for loft per club. That way there wouldn’t be any “84 yards further than any other 7 iron” claims by leading manufacturer and everyone would know where they were. It still wouldn’t matter what anyone you were playing with hit, because its only what you hit and how far you hit it that counts, but it would mean you could buy new clubs without the hassle of changing other clubs. Plus, if you had a 5-PW set from say, Callaway, you could go out and buy a 4iron from TM if you wanted. It just makes sense. I can see why the manufacturers don’t want this, but for us, the consumers, it would be so much easier and simpler.

That’s my view anyway, not that it changes anything, but it would make things a lot simpler.

A few points...

Numbering clubs is purely for the benefit of the player so they can differentiate between them in the bag. They could have just as easily letterered them, colour coded them or written the lofts however over time numbering has become the standard.

The problem with standard lofts would be that you would be stuck if one decided to make a 7 iron a few degrees stronger than 'standard'. Would they need to call it a 6 1/2 iron?

The lofts of clubs are freely available from the manufacturers and you would think that someone spending hundreds of pounds on a set would do a little bit of research first.

 

[Imurg]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I noticed the difference immediately when I traded up to a modern set of clubs. It's basically all a con to make you think that Brand X clubs hit the ball further than their competitors. If you try clubs out you are typically given a 7 iron (used to be a 6 iron) because that is probably the easiest club to hit. If the Brand X 7-iron goes further than the others, you will be impressed and shell out for the full set. You will then find you need one or even two gap wedges and that the longest iron is virtually unusable! Pitching wedges have gone from 51 degrees in the old days to as little as 45 degrees now. Absolutely ridiculous IMO!
:mmm:

I thought you wanted to make the game easier..?
Manufacturers have strengthened lofts to combat higher flight caused by the lowering Centre of Gravity that makes it EASIER to get the ball in the air for ordinary golfers.
Extra distance is a by-product that the marketing departments have seized in an attempt to make us feel like we hit the ball as far as Pros.
If your current, modern PW was 51° you would nearly hit it higher than further..
If you want to go back to traditional lofts you need to buy an old set from the 90's but you'll find it much harder to get the ball flight you have now.

 

[TheJezster]

A few points...

Numbering clubs is purely for the benefit of the player so they can differentiate between them in the bag. They could have just as easily letterered them, colour coded them or written the lofts however over time numbering has become the standard.

The problem with standard lofts would be that you would be stuck if one decided to make a 7 iron a few degrees stronger than 'standard'. Would they need to call it a 6 1/2 iron?

The lofts of clubs are freely available from the manufacturers and you would think that someone spending hundreds of pounds on a set would do a little bit of research first.

If there were a standard, there would be no need to develop a 7 iron with 'stronger' lofts than others though would there?

I think "freely available" is pushing it a little, it can take ages to get the lofts of some clubs.. but by and large many are on their website somewhere yes.

As I said though, it's just my view, I think it WOULD be easier to have an industry standard. I'm not asking you to agree with me or have that same view though.

 

[Foxholer]

Have the head weights always been that way, or have they changed them as shafts have gotten longer to keep swing weights the same?

'Always' been the same! At least in the semi-modern era, when numbered, rather than named, clubs became the norm.

With shaft weights varying from around 130gms to 50gms, there's more than just head weight involved in setting Swing Weight.

There are occasional 'heavy' or (more often, I believe) 'light' heads produced though. I know that both Ping and Taylor Made these for 'special circumstances', but those are the normal standards.

 

[bobmac]

You will then find you need one or even two gap wedges and that the longest iron is virtually unusable!

Can you give an example of a 15 degree 3 iron please?

 

[Jimaroid]

I think we should all go back to having our own Brassies, Spoons, Cleeks, Mashies and Niblicks made for us. Because how you name something is irrelevant. No two people can hit one club exactly the same way, you just play and learn what happens.

 

[louise_a]

I have recently mislaid my PW (I left it on the course somewhere and it hasn't been handed in yet) So I got the PW out of my old set, but due to the difference in the lofts, my old PW goes as far as my current 9 iron, so is not much of a replacement.

 

[Slab]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I noticed the difference immediately when I traded up to a modern set of clubs. It's basically all a con to make you think that Brand X clubs hit the ball further than their competitors. If you try clubs out you are typically given a 7 iron (used to be a 6 iron) because that is probably the easiest club to hit. If the Brand X 7-iron goes further than the others, you will be impressed and shell out for the full set. You will then find you need one or even two gap wedges and that the longest iron is virtually unusable! Pitching wedges have gone from 51 degrees in the old days to as little as 45 degrees now. Absolutely ridiculous IMO!
:mmm:

My point was more that irons are being sold as a 'set' when (due to lofts/lengths etc) they're not really a set but merely component/s of a set of clubs, typically ill-suited to fitting into the remainder of the bag

Stores are full of 4-PW or similar without the consumer having any real choice as to what suits them in terms of lofts/lengths etc (short of a CF session)

Ideally I'd like to see more retailers offer the clubs from FW to 3H/4H & 3I through to 9I through PW, GW SW & LW and let the consumer pick the 6-8-10-12 clubs for 'their' set, doesn't matter whats stamped on them

I wonder how many folks have spent a few hundred on a 'set' of irons and actually have a club they don't now put in the bag?

edit: started a Clubs you don't use thread

 

[Foxholer]

Can you give an example of a 15 degree 3 iron please?

At that end of the range, the gaps change from being 4* to 2*(3* between 5 and 4), so 2-iron is still 17*, 3 is 19, 4 is 21. So loft spec is still 1 different.

My TM300 3-iron was 21* and the 2 was 18* (from memory) as they didn't make a 1-iron by then.

 

[delc]

Can you give an example of a 15 degree 3 iron please?

This link is interesting:

http://www.leaderboard.com/LOFTINFO.htm

This includes the subject of loft creep over the years. Apparently starting from the Pitching Wedge downwards, lofts are now 5 degrees stronger than they used to be and go down in increments of 4 or 3 degrees. It suggests that most club players would struggle to use any modern club longer than a 5-iron, which seems to mirror my experience. 30 years ago my 3-iron was my favorite club. If I may re-iterate a point I made in the 14 club debate, iron club gapping could easily be increased to 5 degrees. My suggestions would be SI 55, PW 50, 9-iron 45, 8-iron 40, 7-iron 35, 6-iron 30, 5-iron 25 degrees, and that would be probably all most player would need, representing a significant saving in cost.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You can find the loft of every single club on the market - why do you need it on the club

As long as you know how far you hit what club is in your hand then you can put whatever you want on the club

 

[delc]

You can find the loft of every single club on the market - why do you need it on the club

As long as you know how far you hit what club is in your hand then you can put whatever you want on the club

I have some Titleist DCI clubs from the early 1980's and they have both a number and the the degrees of loft stamped on their head. The lofts are pretty traditional. I take them to the range occasionally and surprise, surprise, the 6-iron flies about the same height and distance as the 8-iron in my current set of Taylor Mades. Hardly unexpected because the the lofts and shaft lengths are about the same! :mmm:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I have some Titleist DCI clubs from the early 1980's and they have both a number and the the degrees of loft stamped on their head. The lofts are pretty traditional. I take them to the range occasionally and surprise, surprise, the 6-iron flies about the same height and distance as the 8-iron in my current set of Taylor Mades. Hardly unexpected because the the lofts and shaft lengths are about the same! :mmm:

And ?

As long as you know how far each club goes it doesn't natter

 

[bobmac]

You will then find you need one or even two gap wedges and that the longest iron is virtually unusable!


at the longer clubs where a 3 iron is now impossible for a club golfer to hit because it's really a 1-iron!

Can you give me an example of a 15 degree 3 iron please?

 

[Foxholer]

Del. Can you explain just exactly what you are trying to achieve?

All this info is already known/available!

Do you really think that if the OEMs could produce a set of clubs cheaper, the price that the consumer would change?

And would it make golfers happier? Or attract more of them to the game?

Btw. My view is 'No' to all 3 questions!

 

[delc]

And ?

As long as you know how far each club goes it doesn't natter

My clubs never natter, unlike some of my playing companions!

 

[delc]

Can you give me an example of a 15 degree 3 iron please?

See the specification tables in this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_(golf)

The only reason that the modern 1-iron has as much loft as it does is because the manufacturers have reduced the gap between clubs to 3 degrees instead of the more traditional 4 degrees at the longer iron end of the range.

 

[delc]

Del. Can you explain just exactly what you are trying to achieve?

All this info is already known/available!

Do you really think that if the OEMs could produce a set of clubs cheaper, the price that the consumer would change?

And would it make golfers happier? Or attract more of them to the game?

Btw. My view is 'No' to all 3 questions!

Buying a set of clubs is not an insignificant outlay for a new golfer. If you could reduce the number of clubs required without affecting their functionality (e.g. by 5 degree gapping), surely more hard up young people could afford to take up the sport. I very much doubt that an extra degree of loft difference between clubs would make ANY difference to an average golfer's score, as was pretty much proved by our recent 5 clubs and a putter competition, where there were some much bigger gaps between clubs than that!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You can buy golf sets for under a hundred quid

There is affordable golf sets out there for everyone without the need to change any make up of sets