Numbers on golf clubs!

[delc]

Just out of interest, I dug my old set of Titleist DCI's out of the cupboard under the stairs to check the numbers and lofts stamped on the heads. They are as follows:
SW 56, PW 48, 9 44, 8 40, 7 36, 6 32, 5 28, 4 24, 3 21.

So even then a small amount of loft strengthening was going on! However the loft increments between clubs are all 4 degrees except for the PW and the 3-iron. Some modern clubs only have 2 degrees between clubs at the long iron end, but 12 degrees between the SW and PW. No wonder we need gap wedges!

Please also note that the 9-iron has pretty much the same loft (and length) as a modern day PW. :mmm:

 

[Foxholer]

Please also note that the 9-iron has pretty much the same loft (and length) as a modern day PW. :mmm:

Not ALL modern day PWs! As a random pick, Titleist current range MBs/CBs have 47* PW, AP2s 46*. It's only the GI AP1s that are at 44*. Same/similar applies to TM and I'm almost certain will be the same with other OEMs too.

It does pay to look at the specs of all the clubs though. There are some 5* gaps snuck in on occasions!

 

[BubbaP]

This thread has been all over the place and do not wish to be drawn into some of it, but going right back to the OP, I'd make this observation.

Excluding the putter, I currently have 13 other clubs in the bag and 7 of those have the loft on them. So yes I'd quite like it if the other 6 did also.

As others have said, when I acquired them I looked up the specs and saved them so I do know what they are and hence it is not a bog deal.

Cheers

 

[delc]

Not ALL modern day PWs! As a random pick, Titleist current range MBs/CBs have 47* PW, AP2s 46*. It's only the GI AP1s that are at 44*. Same/similar applies to TM and I'm almost certain will be the same with other OEMs too.

It does pay to look at the specs of all the clubs though. There are some 5* gaps snuck in on occasions!

The PW in my TM SpeedBlade iron set has a loft of 45 degrees. The full spec of these irons is given in the following link:

http://taylormadegolf.co.uk/SpeedBlade-Irons/DW-SQ047.html

Worth noting that the loft of the TM 7-iron (normal demo club) is 5.5 degrees stronger than the Titleist DCI 7-iron, and the 4-iron has less loft than the Titleist 3-iron!

 

[garyinderry]

Do a test. Hit the DCI 3iron and put it up against the 5 iron speed blade. see which goes further,which launches easier and what the dispersion is like.

 

[delc]

Do a test. Hit the DCI 3iron and put it up against the 5 iron speed blade. see which goes further,which launches easier and what the dispersion is like.

Probably wouldn't be a totally fair comparison, because the Titleist irons have stiff steel shafts, from my younger days when I was stronger and longer, whilst the SpeedBlades are fitted with Lightweight Steel Regular shafts.

 

[garyinderry]

Probably wouldn't be a totally fair comparison, because the Titleist irons have stiff steel shafts, from my younger days when I was stronger and longer, whilst the SpeedBlades are fitted with Lightweight Steel Regular shafts.

The difference will be next to nothing. Just hit both out of the middle.

 

[delc]

Delc, don't assume Ping are innocent. Have you seen the specs of the Karsten irons?

Ping Karsten irons only go down to a 5-iron which is 24 degrees. Below that it's 3-5 hybrids. See:

http://www.ping.com/clubs/ironsdetail.aspx?id=16428

Hybrids are a relatively new phenomenon by the way, and add to the confusion because number for number they hit the ball further than irons, but less far than fairway woods. Don't think rescue/hybrids existed 25 years ago!

:mmm:

 

[Jimaroid]

Just out of interest, I dug my old set of Titleist DCI's out of the cupboard under the stairs to check the numbers and lofts stamped on the heads. They are as follows:
SW 56, PW 48, 9 44, 8 40, 7 36, 6 32, 5 28, 4 24, 3 21.

How long are the shafts? And how do they compare to your modern clubs?

There is more to the distance and flight of a ball than the loft. And none of it matters if you know how far you can hit a club.

 

[delc]

How long are the shafts? And how do they compare to your modern clubs?

There is more to the distance and flight of a ball than the loft. And none of it matters if you know how far you can hit a club.

Number for number they are slightly shorter, but for a given loft they are about the same! :mmm:

 

[tsped83]

Maybe you should write to the OEMs and tell them your thoughts? Or, as is your want, continue to flog a dead horse on here?

 

[delc]

I took the Titleist DCI's for a spin round the course today and scored 35 points (85 gross) with them, which is a bit better than my recent average! I just had to remember that the PW was really the Gap Wedge, the 9-iron was really the PW, and to take one or two more clubs more from a given distance to allow for the extra loft. Ideally they need re-gripping because the grips have gone a bit hard over time, but they were still nice to play with, and I hit quite a few really good shots with them. I didn't take the 3-iron with me, but the 4-iron was very easy to hit, unlike its Taylor Made equivalent!

 

[delc]

Maybe you should write to the OEMs and tell them your thoughts? Or, as is your want, continue to flog a dead horse on here?

I am just trying to make people aware of what has been a long term scam by club manufacturers. Basically if you try clubs out you are always given a 7-iron, because it is probably the easiest club to hit. If Brand X's 7-iron goes further than the competitors, then you will be impressed and buy the full set.

So the trick is make the 7-iron loft as strong as they think they can get away with and then fit the other clubs around this to give a reasonable progression in distance, about 10-12 yards per club for an average player. However the problems come with the short irons where you can get a 12 degree gap between the Sand Iron (which still needs at least 55 degrees of loft to do its job) and the Pitching Wedge, and the long irons, where the lofts either become impossibly strong, or you have to start reducing the loft gaps between them (which many manufactures are now doing, some to as little as 2 degrees between clubs).

The theory is that the customer will be happy because he is now apparently hitting his short irons miles (as indeed he should do if his 8-iron is really a 6-iron), and the manufacturer will be able to sell you a long iron that you probably won't be able to use and an additional gap wedge, so more profit for them!

Does this benefit your golf? Probably not at all, as I proved yesterday by playing with an old set of clubs and getting a better score than normal, and beating my friend who was using very new clubs from a premium supplier. The difference was that at a certain par-3 hole he used a 6-iron and I used a 4-iron. Both shots were well struck, had a similar trajectory and both finished 10 feet from the hole! QED!

Happy Xmas

 

[BTatHome]

The only person to blame, is the customer themselves .... if the only thing they are buying irons for is to hit them further then they should educate themselves some more.

Recently tested irons last week and found a 'cranked loft' 7 iron only went a couple of yards further, but had better launch, better spin, higher peak height, and much much better dispersion. Do I care that the lofts are cranked ... No ! Do I care that they only have one number on the bottom ... No ! Would I want the degree on the bottom too ... No, as the only time I would care about it is when buying more clubs, otherwise they are absolutely useless.

 

[garyinderry]

The long irons on these modern clubs are much easier to launch than old long irons due to the advancement in weighting.


You can now hit an iron 180/190yards much easier. Thumping an old iron 190yards is quite difficult.

I play old style lofts. 190 for me I would have to think about my hybrid whereas my mate with xhot irons can reach with a 4iron quite easily.

 

[delc]

The only person to blame, is the customer themselves .... if the only thing they are buying irons for is to hit them further then they should educate themselves some more.

Recently tested irons last week and found a 'cranked loft' 7 iron only went a couple of yards further, but had better launch, better spin, higher peak height, and much much better dispersion. Do I care that the lofts are cranked ... No ! Do I care that they only have one number on the bottom ... No ! Would I want the degree on the bottom too ... No, as the only time I would care about it is when buying more clubs, otherwise they are absolutely useless.

For some reason, people always seem to be impressed by how far certain players can hit Pitching wedges and other short irons. I believe that Rory McIroy can hit an 8-iron about 180 yards! I can hit my TM SpeedBlade PW with 45 degrees of loft about 100 yards, but the Titleist DCI PW with 48 degrees of loft only about 80 yards. So what! I have a Gap Wedge of 50 degrees loft to do a similar job in my SpeedBlade set. As long as you don't want to get into a macho contest about who can hit a certain numbered club the further, it doesn't matter a jot. As they say, the scorecard shows no pictures! The Titleist DCI's are decent semi-Game Improvement irons, albeit with rather traditional lofts by modern standards. The heads are easy to line up and they have decent shafts, so they do the business pretty well.

 

[delc]

The long irons on these modern clubs are much easier to launch than old long irons due to the advancement in weighting.


You can now hit an iron 180/190yards much easier. Thumping an old iron 190yards is quite difficult.

I play old style lofts. 190 for me I would have to think about my hybrid whereas my mate with xhot irons can reach with a 4iron quite easily.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on that one. I bought a 4-iron with my TM SpeedBlade set and can hardly get it airborne, let alone any distance. This is probably because it has so little loft. Yet oddly enough I have no problem with similarly lofted hybrids, so I use those instead. I also had no problem hitting the 4-iron in my old Titleist DCI set, but that does have rather more loft. I was quite impressed by how much stop I could get on the green with that club, but it probably now has illegal grooves! I should qualify this by saying I'm a senior golfer with a bit less swing speed than I used to have.

 

[Imurg]

So because you can't hit a modern 4 iron they are harder to hit than 4 irons from years ago......

For the vast majority of players it is easier to use a modern 4 iron than one from 20-30 years ago.
The well ghting in the club head makes it easier to launch - although I've said this twice already and you don't seem to have noticed. Higher launch means stronger lofts unless to want a golf ball fitted nasally....
Modern drivers are bigger and have more forgiveness than those from days of yore...some people struggle with modern drivers but the vast majority find them easier to use.
Or are you still using a driver from 20 years ago as well.....

 

[garyinderry]

 

[tsped83]

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on that one. I bought a 4-iron with my TM SpeedBlade set and can hardly get it airborne, let alone any distance. This is probably because it has so little loft. Yet oddly enough I have no problem with similarly lofted hybrids, so I use those instead. I also had no problem hitting the 4-iron in my old Titleist DCI set, but that does have rather more loft. I was quite impressed by how much stop I could get on the green with that club, but it probably now has illegal grooves! I should qualify this by saying I'm a senior golfer with a bit less swing speed than I used to have.

Maybe you can't hit a 4 iron speedblade because you're crap?