No returns - should you get a handicap increase?

HomerJSimpson

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I have a couple fo partners who regularly enter competitions but if they don't score well regularly NR and still get 0.1 back on the handicap. Is this right or fair. They benefit by not completing the event and still get the increase. I think a number of things need to change.

1) If you NR your round should be null and void for handicap purposes as though you didn't enter

2) Any player NRing more than 3 times in any given period should be banned from competing in any event (club comps, opens etc).

I know why they do it. They are embarrased and don't want to be seen on how did I do at the bottom of the listings. Both are relatively new (members for about a year) and aren't that well known within the clb regulars anyway so it isn't as if anyone is actually going to take the mick anyway. Most people just look at their own score (maybe their partners as well) and get on with it.

I just think it makes a mockery of entering comps to be able to NR and get the handicap benefit
 

GB72

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Agreed, I put my cards in no matter how bad they may be. Cannot see it as being fair to increase a handicap based on an NR.
 

backwoodsman

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Being new to the "having a handicap" lark, I'm not sure I follow this one.

If they are NR-ing because they have a cack score, then I don't see the problem. Cack score = handicap increase, so if they NR it, what's the difference? (Now, if it was an "ok score but not quite good enough to win score" I can see the problem?). But, as I say - I'm new to handicaps so may be missing something
 

HomerJSimpson

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My main problem is that NR is an easy way out particularly in medal play. Why should 99% of the field complete the round, most with no hope of winning or playing to the handicap buffer zone to get 0.1 back when all you have to do is not put your card in.

To me it makes getting your handicap increased too easy. I think if you don't complete the competition you should be treated as a non-entrant and your handicap left alone. Otherwise you only potentially have to play 5 events and NR to get a shot back (eg 18.0 to 18.5 = 19) which to me doesn't necessarily equate to consistantly playing badly.

Maybe its just me and I'm getting hacked off about putting my card in week in week out never looking like hitting the buffer and my mates (and others) just give up
 
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birdieman

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I have a couple of partners who regularly enter competitions but if they don't score well regularly NR and still get 0.1 back on the handicap. Is this right or fair. They benefit by not completing the event and still get the increase. I think a number of things need to change.

Quite surprised to read this, For me an NR and a subsequent 0.1 is not a benefit. The way I see it low handicappers take pride in their handicaps and do everything they can to keep them low, whereas some high handicappers are happy to build a handicap in order to win prizes.
Personally playing better than my handicap comes way above picking up any prizes that might be going but maybe that's my obsession. I am a 5 handicapper but desperate to play to 3 or better.
NR's affect the CSS by weighting it higher, they do count in CSS as they reflect difficulty. Putting in an NR is not giving up, I try to avoid it but occassionally when you have lost a 2nd ball off the tee and your score is too high then an NR can be better than a pointless walk back to the tee. I for one would be pretty unhappy about the NR though and would definitely not see it as a benefit to have my handicap going up.
 

USER1999

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I agree completely with Birdieman. As my goal is getting a handicap reduction, getting 0.1 back is like being slapped in the face. I really want to come down, and if I could stay where I am after a bad round, then the temptation would be there to N/R.
Why struggle to turn a bad score into a buffer zone if N/R gets me the same result?

Personally I look at the bottom of the score sheet to see which spineless creeps N/Rd as I see this as far more embarassing than whatever score I shot.
 

Tommo21

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I usually NR about once a year and I usually do it when I’m beyond the point where I can possibly pull back into the buffer zone. It usually comes about with frustration more than anything else and more often that not it’s usually poor weather as well. In saying that I put in a score of 90 this year and I play off 6HC so I have no problem in everyone knowing my poor scores.

If people continually NR then I think there should be a way to curb it like Homer said.
 

viscount17

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let me understand this, some of you advocate an NR so as to avoid a +0.1, which is deserved by a bad round, so as to artificially protect your handicap and personal embarrassment. Isn't this cheating? (even if it is mostly yourself) and not much better than the guy who NR's to avoid a decrease.
 
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birdieman

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let me understand this, some of you advocate an NR so as to avoid a +0.1, which is deserved by a bad round, so as to artificially protect your handicap and personal embarrassment. Isn't this cheating? (even if it is mostly yourself) and not much better than the guy who NR's to avoid a decrease.

Viscount you can't avoid a 0.1 with an NR, high score or NR are both 0.1 increases regardless. The guy who NR's in order to not get cut, that is tantamount to cheating however that's not likely to happen because if the guy is playing that well he's probably in with a shout of a prize which is what he's after.
 

HomerJSimpson

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My argument was that they NR (one has done it for 3out of the last 4 comps) to save themselves from embarrassment within the club but also to get the 0.1 back. He said to me if I'm not playing well after the front 9 I'll just NR. That smacks of cheating and the reason behind my argument that he shouldn't be allowed to benefit his handicap as a result.

If he is hacking after nine fine but at least make sure you play the full 18 and sign and return your card BEFORE getting the 0.1 back.

I know for the majority of low handicappers, and indeed a great number of GM members it is our goal to get as low as possible (you have all read my heartaches over this golfing year as I lurch from disaster to disaster) and a 0.1 increase smacks of failure. However there is a new breed coming into clubs keen to protect his handicap at all costs and to squirrel as many 0.1 increases as possible.

You look next time there is a big event (captains day, gold leeter board event, club championship handicap prize) and see how many of those in contention are those that have regularly struggled to play well all year and NR'd regularly and lo suddently with a couple of extra shots can amass 40 points. It may be coincidence and some may have actually played really well (and full credit if they have) but I don't happen to think that is always the case
 

RGuk

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It's a good topic. i.m.o. all cards should be handed in and if the card is not complete or finished in any way (including signatures etc.) it should simply be binned. If the players wants a 0.1, then he/she should accept that their poor score will appear on the board.
There are plenty of folk who are in the position where they wouldn't mind going up a few 0.1s to get a full shot back before taking on another round of comps.
Personally, I don't worry about it.....I'd rather play off 12 and never win a thing than mess around with N/R cards in the hope of avoiding embarrassment and creeping up to 13.

However, in a fair club, a player that has returned an "unreasonable" amount of N/R cards should be barred from honours board comp's until they have submitted a complete medal/stableford card (with or without blobs). If they never finish a card.....how can anyone know the real potential.....
 

EchtLoon

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My main problem is that NR is an easy way out particularly in medal play. Why should 99% of the field complete the round, most with no hope of winning or playing to the handicap buffer zone to get 0.1 back when all you have to do is not put your card in.

To me it makes getting your handicap increased too easy. I think if you don't complete the competition you should be treated as a non-entrant and your handicap left alone. Otherwise you only potentially have to play 5 events and NR to get a shot back (eg 18.0 to 18.5 = 19) which to me doesn't necessarily equate to consistantly playing badly.

Maybe its just me and I'm getting hacked off about putting my card in week in week out never looking like hitting the buffer and my mates (and others) just give up
Homer, a couple of points.

1. When playing a comp, to 'score' an NR you MUST hand your card in.

2. All competitors MUST hand their cards in at the end even if it is an NR, you should be disqualified if you do not do this. A disqualification would NOT get a 0.1 increase like a NR would.

3. Most NR's I've ever seen are as the result of someone losing a ball when their score was already long since gone. Are you advocating that these guys should traipse back to the tee and play again, holding our group and the course up?

A member's inctrustion when I was a member at Castletown in the Iom, was that during a stabelford, if you could no longer score on a hole, PICK UP - N.R. the hole, and move on to the next. A bloody good rule imo.

I never NR unless I've found myself in the lost ball and too far out of the buffer to matter anymore situation, and frankly I'd rather player's did that than continued hacking around to score 130 just so they don't NR.
 

Nico

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Good points Echt.

Homer I think you called it yourself in one of your posts and you are getting bent out of shape because of your own attitude (which is right IMHO,BTW).

There have always been people who "manage" their handicaps by whatever means possible it is just a fact of life and human nature.

Ultimately if you are playing rubbish then you will 0.1 back anyway.

I have had plenty of "Nellie Roberts" in the past,mainly when playing with guys who are going well and me feeling that I was affecting their game with my dreadful play. To my shame I can tell you that at times I have wished playing partners would NR when they insist on chasing down every lost ball taking the full 5mins every time or hitting their 5th from the tee having had 100+ blows already.
 
D

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3. Most NR's I've ever seen are as the result of someone losing a ball when their score was already long since gone. Are you advocating that these guys should traipse back to the tee and play again, holding our group and the course up?

My playing partner did this on sunday.

We all saw his ball go straight down the middle (so he didn't play a prov'l), off the tee, but when we had walked down 230'ish to his usual driving distance none of us could find his ball.

The course was very busy and, due to slow play ahead, the group behind were already on the tee when we were picking up our bags.

He decided that it would just slow play down even more, and he was already 8 over par after 10 holes, so he NR'd.

As such he went up 0.1, as he would have if he'd gone back to the tee and taken a double bogey, and he didn't slow down play too much.
 

rgs

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Its a difficult question-iam sitting on the fence with this one-on one hand i agree with Homer but i also understand the views expressed by Gil_Emott as well.

I recently NR'ed in our monthly medal as i was the only one of our 4 ball willing to continue past the 7th hole, this was mainly due to the horrible weather conditions of driving rain and gale force winds-I was playing with the captain and he felt the conditions were too severe-as i could not carry on i had no option but to NR-about 33% of the field NR'ed that day.
 
D

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Why not go the other way and cut them by .1 just for a laugh. That would make them think twice .

But my aim is to get to as low a handicap as possible!

Isn't that all golfer's aim??
 

forefortheday

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Don't see any problem with many of the reasons for going NR on here but I think what Homer was saying was that these guys are doing it to protect (and increase) their handicaps which surely means that later on in the season they get a little bit more "help" in competions?

If that's the case it's bandit country for me, double whammy on those that play well, they'll get a reduction (which I would kill for at this moment!)whilst anyone who NR's gets an increase thereby pushing the two players further away in terms of handicap.

Don't know how you would resolve it though.....
 
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