New rules 2019

[Deleted member 15344]

Surely there must be someone there telling you your up ?



Yes, it seems to be accepted, I'm still all a bit at sea with it to be honest.

Not all clubs have starters - suspect the majority rely on the integrity of their members ensuring they tee off on time

 

[chrisd]

Not all clubs have starters - suspect the majority rely on the integrity of their members ensuring they tee off on time

I suspect early starting is not uncommon as the mood seems to be that it's ok if the group ahead is out of range, whereas people get moody if they are held up on the first tee

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You mean that they actually wheeled their trolleys onto the teeing ground?

If anyone was seen doing this at my place they'd get a decent metaphorical kick up the arse.....have they no thoughts about care for the course?

Recently been a study in the US to see the effect of trolleys on greens, I believe the result was that the damage was minimal and it helped speed up the game slightly.
Can’t see it ever being allowed, surprised to see they had even done a study.

 

[Digger]

Recently been a study in the US to see the effect of trolleys on greens, I believe the result was that the damage was minimal and it helped speed up the game slightly.
Can’t see it ever being allowed, surprised to see they had even done a study.

I hope our head Greenkeeper doesn't read this. He's got a dicky ticker as it is.

 

[nickjdavis]

Happens on plenty links courses , the ground is solid enough that it doesn’t really make a difference

The problem with this is when those links players turn up at a parkland course on clay soil in soggy November and do the same. Might be an extreme example but so many folks take their habits from their home courses when playing "away" and there are some places where it would be simply inappropriate.

 

[rulefan]

Recently been a study in the US to see the effect of trolleys on greens, I believe the result was that the damage was minimal and it helped speed up the game slightly.
Can’t see it ever being allowed, surprised to see they had even done a study.

This was very much green dependant. It was ok on hard dry greens but not on anything damp or with any give.
But it was comparing the effect of trolley wheels vs footprints. It did not allow for the fact that a trolley had an additional effect to the effect of the accompanying player.

The STRI (based in Yorkshire) did a similar study on the general course some years ago and concluded that a player and trolley had a small but noticeable increased effect on the long term condition of the ground, especially on damp/wet ground. But nowhere near as great as buggies.

They didn't specifically test greens in this country as it is effectively a 'no no' here.

 

[rulefan]

If there are four players all with the same start time how can they all start on the dot?

The requirement is being present and ready to play.

6-3a/2.5 When a starting time is listed as 9:00 am, the starting time is deemed to be 9:00 am and the player is subject to penalty under Rule 6-3a if he is not present and ready to play at 9:00:00 am

 

[jim8flog]

The requirement is being present and ready to play.

6-3a/2.5 When a starting time is listed as 9:00 am, the starting time is deemed to be 9:00 am and the player is subject to penalty under Rule 6-3a if he is not present and ready to play at 9:00:00 am

And players who wish to start early would certainly fulfil this requirement.

I was going to say the rules about starting early was a stupid one but I reminded myself of being asked by the Captain last year to formulate a club rule to help prevent it after someone was left standing on the tee because his fellow competitors had teed off early.

The rule we formulated required all players in the group had to ensure all others in the group were present before teeing off.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And players who wish to start early would certainly fulfil this requirement.

I was going to say the rules about starting early was a stupid one but I reminded myself of being asked by the Captain last year to formulate a club rule to help prevent it after someone was left standing on the tee because his fellow competitors had teed off early.

The rule we formulated required all players in the group had to ensure all others in the group were present before teeing off.

Why do you need to formulate a rule when there is a rule of golf that already covers it ?

 

[rulefan]

Where I play we are actively encouraged to go earlier if it is possible.

A problem with this approach is that if the effective starting gap is reduced, it causes congestion further along the course.
It has been shown that start intervals that are too short have the effect of convincing everyone that the club has a slow play problem. When the real problem is 'no play'. ie players can't play because there is nowhere to go.

"Hit when the group are out of range" doesn't help pace of play. There is no time buffer available to absorb lost ball or other delays encountered by the first group further round the course.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't get this train of thought. You can have all the data you want, but you still have to strike the golf ball.

You do - but one of the greatest - if not THE greatest - hindrance to hitting the ball is the 6" of grey stuff between the ears.

That's why practice and casual golf are so much easier than having a card in your hand.

And uncertainty in what you are doing; the conditions; the club; the distance; the shot you are to play etc all go towards the uncertainty that you have to master or at least try and control. Remove all uncertainty thereby reducing the game to the mechanics of the swing - and you lose - IMO - a massively important part of the game. Why I am so against a technology free-for-all.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You mean that they actually wheeled their trolleys onto the teeing ground?

If anyone was seen doing this at my place they'd get a decent metaphorical kick up the arse.....have they no thoughts about care for the course?

Tut tut. No trolleys on, or wheeled across, the tee. Just no reason to have a trolley there.

 

[jim8flog]

Why do you need to formulate a rule when there is a rule of golf that already covers it ?

As previously stated the Captain, nobody on the committee or I were aware of the Decision which makes it obvious that starting early was against the rules of golf.

However it was not that aspect that we were trying to avoid, it was a player finding that their fellow competitors had already teed off before he got to the tee. It was more making sure that players made sure that they were aware of all competitors in the group. We were considering aspects such as when is the latest time a player can sign in to play.

We have 2-3 optional medals a week (sign in the Pro shop before going out to play) and even with pre booked medals sign in is in the proshop which can be done in a vacant slot just before play.

As previously said we encourage 'play' if it is clear even if your tee time has not been reached.

 

[jim8flog]

A problem with this approach is that if the effective starting gap is reduced, it causes congestion further along the course.
It has been shown that start intervals that are too short have the effect of convincing everyone that the club has a slow play problem. When the real problem is 'no play'. ie players can't play because there is nowhere to go.

"Hit when the group are out of range" doesn't help pace of play. There is no time buffer available to absorb lost ball or other delays encountered by the first group further round the course.

We have a simple guideline on our first tee- 'Players should not play until the group in front have reached the green'. Not always observed and yes if players play too quickly they will probably just end up sitting on the bench on the second tee.

 

[NWJocko]

And there was me thinking I was alone - in a debate I gave up on ages ago

The power and potential of integrating mobile technology with 'cloud' data, such as gathered from previous rounds and practice, could be seriously detrimental to the game and the way we play it.

You do realise there are loads of apps that already do this?

Obviously not allowed in comps, but I'd love to know if anyone uses one and actually improves any based upon it? I suspect more people just get swamped with information to the point the last thing they're thinking about is the shot they're trying to hit.

 

[Digger]

You do - but one of the greatest - if not THE greatest - hindrance to hitting the ball is the 6" of grey stuff between the ears.

That's why practice and casual golf are so much easier than having a card in your hand.

And uncertainty in what you are doing; the conditions; the club; the distance; the shot you are to play etc all go towards the uncertainty that you have to master or at least try and control. Remove all uncertainty thereby reducing the game to the mechanics of the swing- and you lose - IMO - a massively important part of the game. Why I am so against a technology free-for-all.

Assuming you know how far you hit each club, the only other things you need to know are. How far is it? Which way is the wind blowing? Is it up or down hill? All of which can be worked out easily without technology. Technology just speeds the decision making process up. (This maybe a little simplistic but you get the idea.) Are you saying on course technology improves your scores?

 

[chrisd]

Assuming you know how far you hit each club, the only other things you need to know are. How far is it? Which way is the wind blowing? Is it up or down hill? All of which can be worked out easily without technology. Technology just speeds the decision making process up. (This maybe a little simplistic but you get the idea.) Are you saying on course technology improves your scores?

Absolutely right. The only thing a laser or GPS watch gives you in competition golf is a yardage from one point to another. Under the rules of golf this is, and to the best of my knowledge, always has been, allowed as it's a question of fact as to the distance. Players wishing to know the distance used to pace it out and add or subtract from known markers. Despite SILH's views I still figure I can blip my Bushnell or look at my watch far quicker than pace 30 yards and back, and I still only have a distance and still have to factor in all the other variables before playing the shot and therefore I take the view that technology has improved the game.

 

[Mark_Aged_42]

Yes to all this. And there are even more factors in addition to Diggers list - how is the ball lying, how hard is the ground for example.
Do the Luddites go round ignoring the 150 yd/100 yd markers present on all courses?

 

[oltimer]

Paraphrasing is a bit of understatement.

When you read the proposed new rules in depth including reading the proposed new rules book there are nearly 100 changes to the rules some of which have not been mentioned by the governing bodies

eg You can now be penalised for starting your round earlier than the allocated start time.

There has always been a penalty for not being at the Tee ready to play at your appointed tee time !

 

[rulefan]

There has always been a penalty for not being at the Tee ready to play at your appointed tee time !

He's talking about being too early not too late.