New Course Opens

[patricks148]

For me it's just not golf as it's supposed to be, and these sort of green fees simply support and perpetuate a belief in non-golfers that golf is a game for a privileged, wealthy, snooty elite...

And I don't care if the market targetted is primarily wealthy Americans and Japanese - it just feels wrong and damaging to the game - a game that in the UK is struggling to attract new players. I can afford to play this sort of course - but I doubt very much that I ever will want to. Looks nice - but it holds absolutely no attraction to me whatsoever.

Clubs are cashing in on the demand, you can't blame them for that? Weak £ has made it very attractive to overseas visitors the last few years.

Ireland have the right idea, much cheaper for them to play the top courses, all that has happened is the Ave UK golfer has been priced out of the top courses IMO

 

[Deleted member 3432]

The new guy is doing a good job, but the list of mistakes and poor management before... have all now come home to roost and have made the current situation much worse. they were rather relying on a bumper year for visitors to pay off the £1M plus the changes cost

Ouch, not a good situation to be in.

Glad we have not commited to the course changes that were proposed by the lot that you got in. Still going to do something moving forward but the club management have a cautious approach to large expenditure which is proving to a wise move at this moment in time

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Clubs are cashing in on the demand, you can't blame them for that? Weak £ has made it very attractive to overseas visitors the last few years.

Ireland have the right idea, much cheaper for them to play the top courses, all that has happened is the Ave UK golfer has been priced out of the top courses IMO

And that, for me, is not what golf is about.

One of the great attractions of the game for me when I took it up as a lad was the idea that one day I could play a great course and walk in the footsteps of the giants. And so as mentioned previously - back in 1982/3 I played the Gleneagles Kings and Queens courses in the same day for the princely sum of £13. That was quite a lot for a poor student - but it was still affordable. And the thrill I felt playing the Kings Course having seen it so many times on TV was huge - it wasn't playing the holes that was thrilling - it was simply knowing...

Nowadays the top courses charge a green fee that I cannot justify paying - and I will not pay. So for me one of the great attractions of playing golf has been lost, and in my eyes that is a great loss.

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

I agree with SwingslikeHogan. And the Yorkshireman in me prevents me from playing a course at that price. I love my golf, and last year our group played North Berwick at £140, and none of us thought it was worth it. We could all afford it, but that's not the point. Dunbar is far better value, and in Fife, Elie (Golf House) takes some beating.
The owners are merely grasping the opportunity as the pound is so weak, PLUS, I know for a fact that the Americans are drawn to a super expensive courses based on their reasoning that it must be top class.
I think Americans can be easily swayed. Well they voted for Trump.............

 

[patricks148]

Ouch, not a good situation to be in.

Glad we have not commited to the course changes that were proposed by the lot that you got in. Still going to do something moving forward but the club management have a cautious approach to large expenditure which is proving to a wise move at this moment in time

a wise move..

 

[ADB]

If i read it correctly its a 100% green fee 'daily membership' arrangement so the only source of income is from visitors - also being owned by an American company you can be sure it will be heavily marketed stateside. The spends ill have to be high on course as well as in the clubhouse.

 

[Zig]

Agree on the pricing - it's a huge shame the Open rota courses for example are pretty much unaffordable in the summer. I saw a chart on twitter which showed over the last 20 years inflation would have seen a 60% increase on 2000 prices - most however have increased by 180%+

Instead, we've taken advantage of playing out of season (March typically) where you can play the likes of Royal Portrush and RCD for half of their summer fee. Or did the winter play and stay at St Andrews with the Old Course/one other with local accommodation.

Maybe this summer, and lack of overseas visitors, will force a bit of a rethink? Living in England, seems like we get the worst of all worlds, as the GUI/Scottish resident reductions for their top courses doesn't apply, and we don't have any of the currency saving either! (

 

[patricks148]

Agree on the pricing - it's a huge shame the Open rota courses for example are pretty much unaffordable in the summer. I saw a chart on twitter which showed over the last 20 years inflation would have seen a 60% increase on 2000 prices - most however have increased by 180%+

Instead, we've taken advantage of playing out of season (March typically) where you can play the likes of Royal Portrush and RCD for half of their summer fee. Or did the winter play and stay at St Andrews with the Old Course/one other with local accommodation.

Maybe this summer, and lack of overseas visitors, will force a bit of a rethink? Living in England, seems like we get the worst of all worlds, as the GUI/Scottish resident reductions for their top courses doesn't apply, and we don't have any of the currency saving either! (

not really, if i went and played courses in England i would have to pay the going rate just like everyone else. so you are not getting treated worse than anyone else.

 

[Siolag]

Agree on the pricing - it's a huge shame the Open rota courses for example are pretty much unaffordable in the summer. I saw a chart on twitter which showed over the last 20 years inflation would have seen a 60% increase on 2000 prices - most however have increased by 180%+

Instead, we've taken advantage of playing out of season (March typically) where you can play the likes of Royal Portrush and RCD for half of their summer fee. Or did the winter play and stay at St Andrews with the Old Course/one other with local accommodation.

Maybe this summer, and lack of overseas visitors, will force a bit of a rethink? Living in England, seems like we get the worst of all worlds, as the GUI/Scottish resident reductions for their top courses doesn't apply, and we don't have any of the currency saving either! (

I’ve heard rumours Kingsbarns isn’t opening this year. Presumably they are hoping for BAU next year.

 

[Zig]

Agree on the pricing - it's a huge shame the Open rota courses for example are pretty much unaffordable in the summer. I saw a chart on twitter which showed over the last 20 years inflation would have seen a 60% increase on 2000 prices - most however have increased by 180%+

Instead, we've taken advantage of playing out of season (March typically) where you can play the likes of Royal Portrush and RCD for half of their summer fee. Or did the winter play and stay at St Andrews with the Old Course/one other with local accommodation.

Maybe this summer, and lack of overseas visitors, will force a bit of a rethink? Living in England, seems like we get the worst of all worlds, as the GUI/Scottish resident reductions for their top courses doesn't apply, and we don't have any of the currency saving either! (

Found the chart showing course price increases - it's on this fab blog. https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/uk-golf-green-fee-reset

 

[Zig]

not really, if i went and played courses in England i would have to pay the going rate just like everyone else. so you are not getting treated worse than anyone else.

Was just an observation, not any victim syndrome etc.
The original post talked about green fees increasing due to the weak pound. That affects people in the UK. Coming from England, there are no discounts at NI/Irish/Scottish courses I'm aware of being offered to UK/GB&I residents. I think it's great that Scots/Norn Irish/Irish can get to play brilliant courses for a lot less than the published green fees - would love it to be extended to their near neighbours in England

Sadly, a reduction for English nationals isn't something I see the likes of Royal Birkdale, RSG, Sunningdale etc etc offering to people from England, that's all.

 

[CliveW]

I’ve heard rumours Kingsbarns isn’t opening this year. Presumably they are hoping for BAU next year.

BAU?

 

[Grant85]

For me it's just not golf as it's supposed to be, and these sort of green fees simply support and perpetuate a belief in non-golfers that golf is a game for a privileged, wealthy, snooty elite...

And I don't care if the market targetted is primarily wealthy Americans and Japanese - it just feels wrong and damaging to the game - a game that in the UK is struggling to attract new players. I can afford to play this sort of course - but I doubt very much that I ever will want to. Looks nice - but it holds absolutely no attraction to me whatsoever.

Completely agree.

I guess the residents rate is not bad to get a round at a top course, and it does look great from what I've seen, but much like my reluctance to spend £450 on a Driver or £800 on irons, I would rather not 'encourage' these pricing structures to become the norm.

Kingbarns is insane. And I can see why they aren't opening as I'd guess there will be almost no Scots who will pay the fees.

There are plenty of very decent courses around that I could play for a fraction of the cost and have no less of an experience or level of enjoyment.

 

[IanM]

Business As Usual...

....I think for every golf course that charges £200 plus, there are many more than charge £25 or less. And you have the choice to go or not... Like most things in life. Doesn't mean golf is posh or based on the cost of an Arsenal Season ticket, football is posh!

 

[patricks148]

Was just an observation, not any victim syndrome etc.
The original post talked about green fees increasing due to the weak pound. That affects people in the UK. Coming from England, there are no discounts at NI/Irish/Scottish courses I'm aware of being offered to UK/GB&I residents. I think it's great that Scots/Norn Irish/Irish can get to play brilliant courses for a lot less than the published green fees - would love it to be extended to their near neighbours in England

Sadly, a reduction for English nationals isn't something I see the likes of Royal Birkdale, RSG, Sunningdale etc etc offering to people from England, that's all.

the deal and Scottish residents get is limited, the SGU rate in much smaller than it used to be and is only for a handful of clubs now and i don't think there is a reduction on any of the open courses. the residents rate again is very limited might only really be some of the newer p&p courses like Castle stuart/ Trump Aberdeen / this new place etc, so it not true to say we get it at all courses its a few.

look on the bright side you have the county card thing which we don't have.. we don't have it as good as GUI, they have the right idea IMO, Scottish golfers are bing priced out of courses too.

 

[Grant85]

Business As Usual...

....I think for every golf course that charges £200 plus, there are many more than charge £25 or less. Like most things in life. Doesn't mean golf is posh or based on the cost of an Arsenal Season ticket, football is posh!

Of course. But sadly perception is more important that reality.

Don't let the fact you can get a membership somewhere for £600 and put together a decent set of second hand clubs for a few hundred quid stand in the way of the sensationalism angle... People see the headlines as £235 a round and £2,500 to get fully kitted out.

 

[Grant85]

Ultimately I see the 'residents rate' as a bit of an admission that they won't have much income outside of tourist season.

Could also be a bit of a marketing strategy... i.e. get some locals playing it so we get some decent reviews and comments on trip adviser etc.

Appreciate that it's a business and businesses are entitled to charge different prices to different customers (and risk annoying certain people at the same time) but it does stack up as a slightly flimsy business model that needs to do this. And I'm sure if they thought they could charge £235 from March to November and get sufficient uptake, it would be a very disciplined business not to do this.

And of course, tourists do get massively caught up in a list of 'must play' courses on a tight trip of a week or so... and many will completely dismiss a £60 round as not worth the effort, hence a lot of 'reassuring expensive' pricing models.

 

[AirdrieHacker]

Has anyone played it? Thinking about taking the plunge on the scottish residents rate.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Completely agree.

I guess the residents rate is not bad to get a round at a top course, and it does look great from what I've seen, but much like my reluctance to spend £450 on a Driver or £800 on irons, I would rather not 'encourage' these pricing structures to become the norm.

Kingbarns is insane. And I can see why they aren't opening as I'd guess there will be almost no Scots who will pay the fees.

There are plenty of very decent courses around that I could play for a fraction of the cost and have no less of an experience or level of enjoyment.

Like East Ren

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Business As Usual...

....I think for every golf course that charges £200 plus, there are many more than charge £25 or less. And you have the choice to go or not... Like most things in life. Doesn't mean golf is posh or based on the cost of an Arsenal Season ticket, football is posh!

Football doesn't have a posh image - in the EPL it's got expensive - but it's not a posh thing to do to go and watch a football match. Golf has an image problem - to much of the non-playing general public we are expensive, posh and elitist - no matter how much we might protest and provide evidence to the contrary.