Natural Ability

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pauldj42 said:
Not talking directly about you, but look at the difference some footballers or rugby players make when different coaches take over.
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That's professional sportsman - they are already at the pinnacle of their sport and when a new manager comes in the difference mainly comes down to tactics or desire - the players natural ability doesn't suddenly improve.
 
Phil to say you could never have improved as a cricketer as 16 year old is wrong. You may not have been as good as your peers but you surely hadn't reached the height of your abilities.

You weren't even fully physically developed at that age. Never mind the mental side of the game.
 
garyinderry said:
Phil to say you could never have improved as a cricketer as 16 year old is wrong. You may not have been as good as your peers but you surely hadn't reached the height of your abilities.

You weren't even fully physically developed at that age. Never mind the mental side of the game.
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I continued playing cricket through my 20's and into 30's whilst in the RAF and didn't get better - I stayed at a good level then dropped as I got older.

The physical side or growing didn't improve my cricketing abilities
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I continued playing cricket through my 20's and into 30's whilst in the RAF and didn't get better - I stayed at a good level then dropped as I got older.

The physical side or growing didn't improve my cricketing abilities
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Would you have been a better cricketer if you didn't join the raf and spent everyday practicing your cricket?
 
hovis said:
Would you have been a better cricketer if you didn't join the raf and spent everyday practicing your cricket?
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No I don't believe I would have.

I spent 4 years practicing and playing every day.

And even whilst in the RAF I had a fair bit of training and practise.

I reached a level just as everyone does.

Plenty of sportsman practise and play every day so why aren't they the best in the world ? Because their natural ability isn't as good as the best in the world
 
Plenty of players, especially footballers improve late. Look at Stuart Pearce struggling in the non-league. Gets picked up, proper training and suddenly his desire to be the best he can be with limited ability (in his own words), and managers that can see what he can and can't do, and he ends up captaining his country. Never the best technical player but proof in my mind that you can get where you want even if you aren't blessed with huge natural talent.
 
I think that in any walk of life. Ability and practice are needed to reach a peak. I'd say you can be average to good at most things with varying ability or levels of effort.

But to reach the top you need to have a talent too. Not just in sports. Academically there are plenty of people that excel and others that work even harder but just don't get it. That intelligence they possess is just an easier to measure "natural ability".

For my game I'd day my short game (chipping and putting) is what I've noticed biggest improvement in due to practice. Where as my driving is generally ok. No matter how much I practice.
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Plenty of players, especially footballers improve late. Look at Stuart Pearce struggling in the non-league. Gets picked up, proper training and suddenly his desire to be the best he can be with limited ability (in his own words), and managers that can see what he can and can't do, and he ends up captaining his country. Never the best technical player but proof in my mind that you can get where you want even if you aren't blessed with huge natural talent.
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But that point coukd be used to go both ways, maybe pearce didn't realise his natural ability until all the correct building blocks were in place, so maybe he would've reached the same level if he'd of been picked up as a youth player
 
pauldj42 said:
But that point coukd be used to go both ways, maybe pearce didn't realise his natural ability until all the correct building blocks were in place, so maybe he would've reached the same level if he'd of been picked up as a youth player
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I accept that. What about Poulter. He always thought he'd be a world class pro but wasn't he off 3 or 4 when he turned pro. Where did the leap from that level to Ryder Cup player come from. Natural ability. Sheer hard work and bloody mindedness, good coaching, or something from all of these
 
Jason Day was saying he practises for 3.5hrs everyday on chipping and putting, some things need constant practise I suppose.
 
I always feel that people use the 'i don't have the natural ability' card to comfort themselves with the fact they haven't spent the hours of appropriate, dedicated practice required to ascend in their chosen sport. Hand eye coordination can be traced back to prolonged, repetetive instances of appropriate practice in earlier life.

Let me give you another non-sporting example. You start a new job and more often than not you're all fingers and thumbs. After a few years of 40 hours a week or so you've racked up all that dedicated practice and you can do that stuff you struggled with at an almost subconcious level.

I don't think there is such a thing as natural ability when it comes to skill sports. Absolute physical sports like running and weightlifting yes, but tennis, golf etc. no chance. If you look back at any pro-golfers life you'd see the hours they've put in.
 
HowlingGale said:
I always feel that people use the 'i don't have the natural ability' card to comfort themselves with the fact they haven't spent the hours of appropriate, dedicated practice required to ascend in their chosen sport. Hand eye coordination can be traced back to prolonged, repetetive instances of appropriate practice in earlier life.

Let me give you another non-sporting example. You start a new job and more often than not you're all fingers and thumbs. After a few years of 40 hours a week or so you've racked up all that dedicated practice and you can do that stuff you struggled with at an almost subconcious level.

I don't think there is such a thing as natural ability when it comes to skill sports. Absolute physical sports like running and weightlifting yes, but tennis, golf etc. no chance. If you look back at any pro-golfers life you'd see the hours they've put in.
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Hit the nail on the head for me :thup:
 
So why don't all those aspiring golf pros who put in the hours constantly practising don't reach the tour levels then ?

They practise day in day out yet don't get the scores ?

Even at the top levels the gulf is pretty vast between someone like McIlroy and the guy in last place on the ET - I have no doubt the guy in last place practices as much - but doesn't play as well as McIlroy - the reason why ? Because Rory is naturally better than 99.9% of them.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
So why don't all those aspiring golf pros who put in the hours constantly practising don't reach the tour levels then ?

They practise day in day out yet don't get the scores ?

Even at the top levels the gulf is pretty vast between someone like McIlroy and the guy in last place on the ET - I have no doubt the guy in last place practices as much - but doesn't play as well as McIlroy - the reason why ? Because Rory is naturally better than 99.9% of them.
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Because when you look back at Rory's practice in younger years you'd probably find that it was wholly appropriate for his game. We all know that going to the driving range and bashing 100 balls with a flawed technique is going to leave you with a flawed technique. That and he's probably sorted the psychological side as well. If you look at all the tour pros they're all capable of being the best on any given day. Why? Mental fortitude?
 
AmandaJR said:
I always believed in natural ability and felt I had it in spades when it came to ball sports. I played hockey, cricket, football, tennis, squash, badminton etc and felt pretty much conffident that ball and/or ball and bat in hand and I'd make a good fist of it with no or very little coaching. Then I took up golf...and was rubbish! Ok so maybe I could smack the occasional drive pretty far (with lots of slice) but it was occasional and the rest of my game really was rubbish. I had a few lessons but never really committed to a coach and focussed practice. It was only when I found the right coach and felt enthused and believed I could get better that I started to improve. In 5 years that got me to single figures but no way would I have got there if I relied on natural ability - it was consistent coaching and consistent, guided practice.

Having said that - I do play with those that are from a totally non-sporting background and I'm not sure they'd progress as far, even with the same coaching and work...

So I guess it's a bit of ability but that's no good without the fundamentals when it comes to golf.
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Same journey as you Amanda.

Decent at lots of sports, but was absolutely rubbish at golf for 10-15 years (scoring 140-odd down to mid eighties). Joined a club, played more and all year round, little bit of practice, the odd lesson and now down to 6.

I think I had natural ability, but it still needed chanelling.
 
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