Natural Ability

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Always an interesting discussion, this. I'm firmly in the learned behavior camp - I'd credit natural ability with maybe 10-20% of the credit for success in a given endeavor with the rest going to opportunity (time), desire/motivation, repetition, physical capability and mental fortitude.
 
I do believe in natural ability and it annoys me that people who can do something very well say they anyone can do it. Absolute poppycock! I hear singers say anyone can sing... Well I can prove otherwise and have plenty of people that can vouch for that fact!
When low handicappers say anyone can get down to a 15 handicap easily and high handicappers are just lazy it really makes my blood boil. I know lots of high handicappers that are desperate to achieve a handicap of 18 or lower but for one reason or another it just doesn't happen for them.
I have a natural ability for maths but I would never say to someone that anyone can be an "expert" mathematician.
 
Natural ability, commitment and learned behaviour.

You need all three to reach the top. The absence of one of these will prevent you reaching the top level and the best you can be.
 
I think that a lot of what is perceived as natural ability is down to the kind of activities you did as a child. If you were brought up in a musical family, then your musical talents will have developed. If you did a lot of physical activities then your sporting abilities will be developed. These things can be learned at any point in life up to a degree but it gets harder the older you get especially if there is no overlap with the things you have done previously.
 
Cheifi0 said:
I think that a lot of what is perceived as natural ability is down to the kind of activities you did as a child. If you were brought up in a musical family, then your musical talents will have developed. If you did a lot of physical activities then your sporting abilities will be developed. These things can be learned at any point in life up to a degree but it gets harder the older you get especially if there is no overlap with the things you have done previously.
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What about genetics? Or physique.
 
Cheifi0 said:
I think that a lot of what is perceived as natural ability is down to the kind of activities you did as a child. If you were brought up in a musical family, then your musical talents will have developed. If you did a lot of physical activities then your sporting abilities will be developed. These things can be learned at any point in life up to a degree but it gets harder the older you get especially if there is no overlap with the things you have done previously.
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Really good point; early stage environment is another major factor by my reckoning FWIW
 
pauldj42 said:
What about genetics? Or physique.
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They do play a part but are nowhere near as important as your mindset. There are a few "genetic freaks" such as Usain Bolt or Jonah Lomu in the very top echelons but they are more the exception than the rule. Having said that they could quite easily of not achieved the things they did and gave up.
 
bunch of stuff plays into it

some folks will have better coordination, balance etc some better mindset and emotional control a percentage will have all this kinda stuff which can help reach a 'higher' skill level

learning game 'properly' (means good tuition) at an earlier age will help both in understanding the how and why and the 'learned experience'

practice and learned experience will help .... if .... it's good practice and an true understanding of the 'learned experience'

sadly a good majority of folks just don't practice well
 
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the_coach said:
bunch of stuff plays into it

some folks will have better coordination, balance etc some better mindset and emotional control a percentage will have all this kinda stuff which can help reach a 'higher' skill level

learning game 'properly' (means good tuition) at an earlier age will help both in understanding the how and why and the 'learned experience'

practice and learned experience will help .... if .... it's good practice and an true understanding of the 'learned experience'

sadly a good majority of folks just don't practice well
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Would you care to expand on this please? Maybe even a separate post on the topic. Its all too easy to start with good practice and slip into poor practice.
 
Alex1975 said:
Would you care to expand on this please? Maybe even a separate post on the topic. Its all too easy to start with good practice and slip into poor practice.
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sure will look to do that when able to time-wise, where I currently am in the world is very early mornin and need to turn in

if you got any questions over any specific areas of the game practice just send pm
happy to give my take on stuff through experience would consider to be real useful to folks game practice and improvement
 
When I was 12 I realised I was pretty good at cricket and a year later I got selected first for Plymouth schools then County - I was then given a sports scholarship to Millfield School in Somerset attached to Somerset CC - I practised every single and was coached by national and international coaches - everything I did was focused towards moving through the levels until county cricket - but at the age of 16 I just wasn't getting better , I had plateaued despite contstant trainjng and coaching - i kept going for another year but it was clear to see I had reached my level - no matter what happened I wasn't going to get any better - why ? Because IMO I have reached my natural ability and no amount of practise or coaching would improve as a player. And that's exactly what I have witnessed whenever I have played any sport - it was hockey after cricket and again reached a good level but just didn't get any better than the level I got to despite regular coaching and practise. And now it's the turn of golf - I know I haven't reached my full ability and maybe I might never reach it but if i do I don't expect to go beyond that.

Someone mentioned him earlier but anytime this is brought up - Matthew Syed is the response - he is very much an advocate of practise over ability - and I will also ask - why didn't he go higher than what he achieved - because naturally he wasn't as good as others and no amount of practise will ever make up for that IMO
 
Liverpoolphil said:
When I was 12 I realised I was pretty good at cricket and a year later I got selected first for Plymouth schools then County - I was then given a sports scholarship to Millfield School in Somerset attached to Somerset CC - I practised every single and was coached by national and international coaches - everything I did was focused towards moving through the levels until county cricket - but at the age of 16 I just wasn't getting better , I had plateaued despite contstant trainjng and coaching - i kept going for another year but it was clear to see I had reached my level - no matter what happened I wasn't going to get any better - why ? Because IMO I have reached my natural ability and no amount of practise or coaching would improve as a player. And that's exactly what I have witnessed whenever I have played any sport - it was hockey after cricket and again reached a good level but just didn't get any better than the level I got to despite regular coaching and practise. And now it's the turn of golf - I know I haven't reached my full ability and maybe I might never reach it but if i do I don't expect to go beyond that.

Someone mentioned him earlier but anytime this is brought up - Matthew Syed is the response - he is very much an advocate of practise over ability - and I will also ask - why didn't he go higher than what he achieved - because naturally he wasn't as good as others and no amount of practise will ever make up for that IMO
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So without the right level of coaching are you saying people may not know what their natural level of ability is and whether they've reached it?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
When I was 12 I realised I was pretty good at cricket and a year later I got selected first for Plymouth schools then County - I was then given a sports scholarship to Millfield School in Somerset attached to Somerset CC - I practised every single and was coached by national and international coaches - everything I did was focused towards moving through the levels until county cricket - but at the age of 16 I just wasn't getting better , I had plateaued despite contstant trainjng and coaching - i kept going for another year but it was clear to see I had reached my level - no matter what happened I wasn't going to get any better - why ? Because IMO I have reached my natural ability and no amount of practise or coaching would improve as a player. And that's exactly what I have witnessed whenever I have played any sport - it was hockey after cricket and again reached a good level but just didn't get any better than the level I got to despite regular coaching and practise. And now it's the turn of golf - I know I haven't reached my full ability and maybe I might never reach it but if i do I don't expect to go beyond that.

Someone mentioned him earlier but anytime this is brought up - Matthew Syed is the response - he is very much an advocate of practise over ability - and I will also ask - why didn't he go higher than what he achieved - because naturally he wasn't as good as others and no amount of practise will ever make up for that IMO
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But would Syed have reached his plateau if he hadn't practiced, and been coached? Would you have achieved the level you did if you hadn't been coached and practiced?

To to paraphrase what a County golf coach said to me as we looked out of his window at someone the way to the practice ground. "There's another one on the way to ingraining bad habits into their game."

Ability will get you playing, but practice will get you playing well.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
When I was 12 I realised I was pretty good at cricket and a year later I got selected first for Plymouth schools then County - I was then given a sports scholarship to Millfield School in Somerset attached to Somerset CC - I practised every single and was coached by national and international coaches - everything I did was focused towards moving through the levels until county cricket - but at the age of 16 I just wasn't getting better , I had plateaued despite contstant trainjng and coaching - i kept going for another year but it was clear to see I had reached my level - no matter what happened I wasn't going to get any better - why ? Because IMO I have reached my natural ability and no amount of practise or coaching would improve as a player. And that's exactly what I have witnessed whenever I have played any sport - it was hockey after cricket and again reached a good level but just didn't get any better than the level I got to despite regular coaching and practise. And now it's the turn of golf - I know I haven't reached my full ability and maybe I might never reach it but if i do I don't expect to go beyond that.

Someone mentioned him earlier but anytime this is brought up - Matthew Syed is the response - he is very much an advocate of practise over ability - and I will also ask - why didn't he go higher than what he achieved - because naturally he wasn't as good as others and no amount of practise will ever make up for that IMO
Click to expand...

Does this mean that people that have reached the top level of any field have never experienced a plateau in there journey to the top? Everyone experiences plateaus they just train/practice/play through it. I firmly believe that only a small number of people achieve what they are capable of doing.
 
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that practise doesn't matter and some people do need to practise and work hard to reach their level but I don't think anyone will ever be able to go beyond the level their natural ability determines - will people ever reach that level at various things ? No idea I believe I did at two various sports and no amount of practise would have taken me further
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Where as I know a good deal amount of people who practise constantly yet don't improve - why is that ? Because IMO they have reached their limit as set by their own natural ability. It's the same with any sport - you can't practise yourself better than your natural ability level IMO. Some may need to practise to reach their limit some may reach it just playing
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How do you know when you've reached said potential?

I've had plenty of plateaus but I'm still improving and scoreing, on average, better.
 
One Planer said:
How do you know when you've reached said potential?

I've had plenty of plateaus but I'm still improving and scoreing, on average, better.
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It will be up to you to know when you think you have reached your potential
 
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