Natural Ability

[Deleted member 21258]

Agreed natural ability makes a massive difference, whether that is learnt when young or whether you are born with it I am not so sure. But would probably say an element is born with it.

It means if you have the natural ability, you will pick up the sport quicker and get better quickly, than someone who does not. My wife and me are examples of this. No amount of practise will get her to my standard to be brutally honest.

Golf is the hardest game you can ever play imho, and therefore there is much more involved than just natural ability to be a great golfer, due to the different elements of golf(mental, swing, putting).

 

[SugarPenguin]

I'm a firm believer in natural ability determining the level of golf you can play The ability to relax comes natural for me - not to worry about things and just take it as it comes and find chipping comes naturally

Im a sportsman. Every sport I play I'm good at without sounding arrogant. However I think my progress with golf has been slower. I think golf is more nurture than nature - whereas most other sports it's nature > nurture in my opinion. The more you practice the better you can get at golf

 

[Liverbirdie]

Was coached by national and international coaches at Cricket and hockey and there was various coaches throughout. Tried different methods and changing things but it didnt work to improve me.

Maybe you were over-coached.:rofl:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because when you look back at Rory's practice in younger years you'd probably find that it was wholly appropriate for his game. We all know that going to the driving range and bashing 100 balls with a flawed technique is going to leave you with a flawed technique. That and he's probably sorted the psychological side as well. If you look at all the tour pros they're all capable of being the best on any given day. Why? Mental fortitude?

And others practised just as much maybe more than Rory throughout their whole life and still do now but don't do as well as him - because he is naturally better in all aspects.

These Pro's have dedicated coaches - they aren't bashing with flawed technique - Rory is just simply better than them.

But it's not just Rory - it's the guy on the challenge tour who practise just as much yet don't reach the ET.

 

[hovis]

My pp is 18 years old and plays off +2. He's been stuck shooting the same score week in week out for the last year despite practicing for 9 hours a day. He changed his coach in January and his last 3 rounds on the brabazon have been 5, 8 and 6 under gross. speaks volumes for me

 

[Hobbit]

So why don't all those aspiring golf pros who put in the hours constantly practising don't reach the tour levels then ?

They practise day in day out yet don't get the scores ?

Even at the top levels the gulf is pretty vast between someone like McIlroy and the guy in last place on the ET - I have no doubt the guy in last place practices as much - but doesn't play as well as McIlroy - the reason why ? Because Rory is naturally better than 99.9% of them.

Using exceptions to prove a rule just isn't a fair measure. The Rory's of this world will always stand out. Once someone is hitting 65's on tour, it's down to the mental side, bottle and concentration. Technically good enough, but mentally fragile.

And the absolute measure of this are the top pro's who lose it. Ian Baker Finch and Sandy Lyle. Find better golfers on there day if you can, but it was down to bottle in the end.

Their natural ability is without question, just as good amateurs have that ability but no bottle.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

My pp is 18 years old and plays off +2. He's been stuck shooting the same score week in week out for the last year despite practicing for 9 hours a day. He changed his coach in January and his last 3 rounds on the brabazon have been 5, 8 and 6 under gross. speaks volumes for me

Indeed. No coincidence even the top pros often change coaches to get a fresh approach and that certain something to reinvigorate their games

 

[HowlingGale]

And others practised just as much maybe more than Rory throughout their whole life and still do now but don't do as well as him - because he is naturally better in all aspects.

These Pro's have dedicated coaches - they aren't bashing with flawed technique - Rory is just simply better than them.

But it's not just Rory - it's the guy on the challenge tour who practise just as much yet don't reach the ET.

They aren't practicing with a flawed technique now. They will not be able to eradicate completely any flawed practice they did for hours and hours as a youngster. Their body will automatically revert to what it spent most time doing previously when the pressure intensifies and their conscious mind starts to take over. Think they call this muscle memory. Like I mentioned in a previous post these guys should operate with their subconscious (the zone), but they seldom do and that's why Rory's better than most.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Using exceptions to prove a rule just isn't a fair measure. The Rory's of this world will always stand out. Once someone is hitting 65's on tour, it's down to the mental side, bottle and concentration. Technically good enough, but mentally fragile.

And the absolute measure of this are the top pro's who lose it. Ian Baker Finch and Sandy Lyle. Find better golfers on there day if you can, but it was down to bottle in the end.

Their natural ability is without question, just as good amateurs have that ability but no bottle.

It's not expections though - look at the World Ranking lists or HC lists - people find their natural level - and natural ability includes mental as well as physical.

If people could play above their natural ability then everyone should be playing to the same level but that doesn't happen - take any sport and the level of abilities ranges throughout the sport and it's not determined by the amount of practise they have its determined by their own ability - which is then honed by coached and practising.

Everyone IMO reaches a level and just don't get any better no matter how much they practise

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It's not expections though - look at the World Ranking lists or HC lists - people find their natural level - and natural ability includes mental as well as physical.

If people could play above their natural ability then everyone should be playing to the same level but that doesn't happen - take any sport and the level of abilities ranges throughout the sport and it's not determined by the amount of practise they have its determined by their own ability - which is then honed by coached and practising.

Everyone IMO reaches a level and just don't get any better no matter how much they practise

Disagree. Lots of examples across many sports of players working hard on their games and getting better. Even club golfers can have a lesson, change their equipment or change the way they approach their own course and get cut. They've improved.

 

[Hobbit]

It's not expections though - look at the World Ranking lists or HC lists - people find their natural level - and natural ability includes mental as well as physical.

If people could play above their natural ability then everyone should be playing to the same level but that doesn't happen - take any sport and the level of abilities ranges throughout the sport and it's not determined by the amount of practise they have its determined by their own ability - which is then honed by coached and practising.

Everyone IMO reaches a level and just don't get any better no matter how much they practise

Once a person adopts coaching methods it's not natural, it's learned. There are physical limits around their physicality and ability to learn.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Once a person adopts coaching methods it's not natural, it's learned. There are physical limits around their physicality and ability to learn.

And one of those physical limits is IMO natural ability

Another example - Could Downing reach the same level as Messi ? Nope because naturally Messi has more ability

Same in Tennis when comparing players and indeed any sport - people can't just train or learn or practise to be as good as some unless they have the ability to be as good.

How many people have lesson after lesson and practise every day yet HC doesn't change beyond a shot up or down ? I certainly know a fair few

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Once a person adopts coaching methods it's not natural, it's learned. There are physical limits around their physicality and ability to learn.

So would you say that this process begins as soon as coaching begins. What about schoolboy football. Are you saying the local U10's being taught by a dad, or teacher, has now impinged the natural talent. Where do you see see the line being drawn and where coaching begins to erode natural talent and a player becomes limited by their physicality and ability to learn and adopt new methods

 

[Hobbit]

And one of those physical limits is IMO natural ability

Another example - Could Downing reach the same level as Messi ? Nope because naturally Messi has more ability

Same in Tennis when comparing players and indeed any sport - people can't just train or learn or practise to be as good as some unless they have the ability to be as good.

How many people have lesson after lesson and practise every day yet HC doesn't change beyond a shot up or down ? I certainly know a fair few

Splitting hairs and semantics but I feel what you are talking about is the natural limit. Everyone's natural limit is determined by their physicality, including bottle.

Natural is is doing it without thinking. Thinking about the coaching is forcing an action.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Splitting hairs and semantics but I feel what you are talking about is the natural limit. Everyone's natural limit is determined by their physicality, including bottle.

Natural is is doing it without thinking. Thinking about the coaching is forcing an action.

I believe we are prob talking the same thjng just using two different sayings to describe it

 

[Hobbit]

I believe we are prob talking the same thjng just using two different sayings to describe it

No, you're wrong:ears:







in true forum sense we need to argue this for at least another 3 pages........................ But I think you're right............. But don't tell anyone I said that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No, you're wrong:ears:







in true forum sense we need to argue this for at least another 3 pages........................ But I think you're right............. But don't tell anyone I said that.

I'm going to frame and save this post :ears:

 

[Hobbit]

I'm going to frame and save this post :ears:

Sexist pig!

 

[HowlingGale]

So would you say that this process begins as soon as coaching begins. What about schoolboy football. Are you saying the local U10's being taught by a dad, or teacher, has now impinged the natural talent. Where do you see see the line being drawn and where coaching begins to erode natural talent and a player becomes limited by their physicality and ability to learn and adopt new methods

This is the nub of it. Most people are taught by their fathers, mothers, amateur coach etc. They don't get taught properly so no amount of practicing flawed techniques will make them better. In later life they pay for correct coaching. However when they're young they have loads of time to practice this incorrect technique. When they're older they haven't practiced the correct technique for anywhere near the same amount of time. So, when the pressure hits and they're standing there kieching their breeks their body will revert to what it knows and that's the ingrained incorrect technique from yesteryear.

 

[Papas1982]

My last word on this will be one name. Ronnie O Sullivan. Anyone else thinks he works hard as all this other? The bloke would be top 16 left handed. Hard work gets you so far. Natural talent does the rest.

For or every pouter or Pearce who's worked hard. There will be an o Sullivan or le tissier.