Mythbusting, do jacked lofts actually go further or not?

[MadAdey]

I know this subject has been thrashed to death a few times, but I have never really gone out and seen for myself the difference it makes. Now what I found was with my swing, I do naturally hit the ball high with my irons so find launching any club including a 2i blade from the ground possible...........

It's new club time, because after 2 years of the JPX 825 Pro no matter how good they may be I am still not falling in love with them. My average score may be a bit better, but I still hit lower scores with my MP33s.

I wish I still had my MP33s, so time to get some blades again I think....................

So off to the Roger Dunn golf superstore yesterday to try some stuff out on the GC2 hitting bays. I took my 6i to use as a baseline to compare other clubs against. 5 hits with that and I had a nice average distance at what I would expect to see and a decent dispersal. They have the TM, PING, Titleist and Mizuno fitting carts so this was going to be good. I got an MP4, MP15, S55, TPMB, TPMC, 714 MB and a 714 CB all set up in the same specs as my 6i. I also found in the second hand clubs an APEX MB and an MP68 in the my specs also, so this was going to be some good comparing.

I immediately threw out the 2 TM offerings, the S55 and the 714 CB as I didn't like how they looked. So these are the results I got for dispersal and carry distance.

My 6i (29*) 8 yard dispersal @ 180 carry
MP4 (30*) 10 yard dispersal @ 176 carry
MP15 (30*) 7 yard dispersal @ 178 carry
MP68 (31*) 8 yard dispersal @ 178 carry
APEX MB (31*) 6 yard dispersal @ 181 carry

So not a lot in the distances or dispersal and the APEX at 2* less actually went as far and on a tighter dispersal. So up comes the last one I tried, the one I really thought was going to be the toughest to hit, a real bladed iron with no room for error, the 714 MB.

714 MB (31*) 4 yard dispersal @ 184 carry :mmm: The peak height was higher than my 6i, but the launch angle was lower. It had less backspin but it had a steeper angle of descent.

So what did I learn? An MB with 2* more loft actually goes further and tighter than my JPX Pro that are meant to hit the ball further and more consistently. Less spin means it will will stay straighter on bad strikes, but also the lower launch and less spin means it will not balloon when into the wind.

So in conclusion, jacked lofts on irons does not necessarily mean greater distance. All it appears to do is counteract the higher launching design of the club, so you are not loosing distance.

 

[Foxholer]

Were they ll with the same shafts? Or were they all with their stock ones?

So, for you, it doesn't seem yo matter a huge amount. But I've certainly noticed a difference in length and noticed it in others too.


On your potential change....
I'd suggest you also try the longest iron you want to play and see which one is easiest to hit. JPX825s seem to me to be a bit utilitarian and just not nice enough looking to 'fall in love with'. That's not the case for blades, though I can't see the point in making life hard at the long end. I'd suggest you consider the Apex Pros from 6 up (or even completely as they are quite gorgeous!).

Bear in mind that one of the reasons (the one that actually triggered my change from blades) was the inability to use the club for the distance when I ended up in thicker Autumn UK rough. that may not bee the case in the 'constant Summer' of California! But 'Players CBs' seem to give almost as much feel as blades and are more forgiving at the top end.

 

[the_coach]

launch monitor numbers that would have told the real story behind what was happening with all the strikes would be what dynamic loft at what AoA gave what LA so what 'spin loft'.

depends on the dynamic loft being presented & crucially at what AoA into impact in relation to the LA, so what then the spin loft for each strike is.

smaller the spin loft angle the faster the ball speed off the face will be & with the lowest spin rate.

the less dynamic loft (doesn't really matter a tad what the static loft is) with a shallower angle of attack (6i optimum around -4º that still with hands ahead so forwards leaning shaft of 6º or more) being presented at impact will give optimum 'spin loft' angle for strike.
but have a steep AoA into the strike & you'll get a ways too much backspin that will bring down the ball speed & carry distance for any of the iron types.

these 'optimum strike conditions' put the clubface on the back of the ball on the best vertical axis point (the infamous "3rd groove") at collision to get the optimum narrower 'spin loft angle' - in old $'s this would mean, the commentators would say, the ball was really 'compressed' off the face. so optimum ball speed.
if all that happens with the lower lofted, chunky, fast face big headed irons they will go further.

{Swede. J Carlsson apparently been measured hitting the new aeroburner 6i some 250 yards}

 

[Robobum]

Confused?!!??!

It's like asking does a 5i go further than a 6i?

What the op suggests is that one make & type of club goes further than another. Undoubtedly they will

 

[Smiffy]

I guess they do.
I've been playing for the best part of 30 years, and over that time have obviously lost a bit of distance.
With my new RS1's I am now hitting the same numbers I was all those years ago.
I am confident that on a 150 yard par 3 I can get there easily with a 7 iron, maybe even clubbing down to an 8 whereas before I would be thinking 6, possibly 7.
The extra distance has come from somewhere

 

[MadAdey]

Confused?!!??!

It's like asking does a 5i go further than a 6i?

What the op suggests is that one make & type of club goes further than another. Undoubtedly they will

No, it's the fact that my 6i has 29* loft and the 714MB with 31* goes further. The point I'm getting at is all the ones I tested are a more compact players blade rather than an easier to hit slightly better players GI iron.

I was expecting a bit of a difference in distance, maybe a club or so, not to actually hit it further and straighter with a higher lofted blade. Maybe I have a misconception when it comes to blades, my MP33 certainly hit it shorter when i got fitted for the JPX so was expecting the same. What I found was there was no real difference in distance to be honest.

 

[MadAdey]

@foxy

The MP4, MP15 and 714MB all got put together in exactly the same spec from the fitting carts as my JPX, X-100 longer than standard with up right lie angles. The other 2 came from the second hand trade in sets with the MP68 being the correct length with KBS Tour X-stiff fitted and the APEX 1/4 inch too short but with Project X 6.5 fitted, both not a mile off the correct fitting so would give good results.

I did go and get the 714 3i from the display set and hit that on the launch monitor. It was standard so sat 3/4 inch shorter than my JPX and had S300 shafts. But that was still easy to hit and flew beautify. I had the 2i in my MP33s, that I could hit really well from the deck so the thought of bladed long irons do not bother me.

 

[BTatHome]

I found my new irons with so called 'jacked lofts' have very little difference in distance, bit have much better dispersion and do launch higher ... and after worrying about hitting it even higher my mind was put to rest by the expert fitter that commented my peak heights were only a little higher than previous and aren't way out (probably massaging my ego but closer to tour heights).

Looking at distance only, which many people do when looking for new iroms, means you miss all the other things that make a good set of irons!

 

[MadAdey]

Looking at distance only, which many people do when looking for new iroms, means you miss all the other things that make a good set of irons!

distance wasn't something that I was really looking at, I had got in my mind that I might loose some distance because the JPX Pro has stronger than normal lofts. But the fact that the MB went further and tighter shocked me. Also the fact that I got a better peak height and decent angle is a bit of a sweetner too. But a lower launch angle and less spin also means that into wind I will not get punished as much.

 

[Scotty Cameron]

JPX825s seem to me to be a bit utilitarian and just not nice enough looking to 'fall in love with'.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

[virtuocity]

Yes.

 

[JustOne]

I would suggest that a 22° club will go further than a 24° club - all things being equal.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Would be interesting to see an item in GM about this. What effect does the design of the club head have? As I understand it blades launch lower than a GI or SGI club so in my mind there way be some element of needing to "loft up" to get the flight and distance as compared to a higher launching GI head.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Would be interesting to see an item in GM about this. What effect does the design of the club head have? As I understand it blades launch lower than a GI or SGI club so in my mind there way be some element of needing to "loft up" to get the flight and distance as compared to a higher launching GI head.

I can see this being an interesting piece although difficult to do without the co-operation of the manufacturers without running the risk of upsetting some and impacting advertising revenue. Also, and arguably the key is that an individual, especially an average Joe golfer will put different swings on different clubs and there won't be a degree of consistency. Different clubs will always perform differently in most players hands unless they are low handicapped

 

[MadAdey]

I can see this being an interesting piece although difficult to do without the co-operation of the manufacturers without running the risk of upsetting some and impacting advertising revenue. Also, and arguably the key is that an individual, especially an average Joe golfer will put different swings on different clubs and there won't be a degree of consistency. Different clubs will always perform differently in most players hands unless they are low handicapped

But you would need golfers with varying swings, as I believe the results that people are getting is down to the fact that these clubs are enabling them to launch the ball correctly so they are going to get more distance. But some people are actually launching then all too high.

The 714MB has 2* more loft than my JPX Pro, but it was launching at 2* lower. It was still achieving the same peek height, but had less spin with a steeper angle of descent. But take another player and he might not be able to launch the MB correctly so will loose distance compared to the JPX.

Higher launching clubs equals loss of distance, so then you need to turn the loft down to counteract this and get them to fly a distance you would expect with that club. At the end of the day who is going to buy a club that promises to hit the ball shorter.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

At the end of the day who is going to buy a club that promises to hit the ball shorter.

I agree but short and straight better than long and wide although as a sales pitch it's a big ask

 

[JustOne]

I agree but short and straight better than long and wide

I don't agree.

 

[MadAdey]

I agree but short and straight better than long and wide although as a sales pitch it's a big ask

That is where these so called jacked lofts come into play. To give you back the distance they have taken some of the loft off each iron to stillmake them fly good distances. Ok some manufacturers have gone too far to the point where they are producing a 44* PW and making claims they are their longest irons ever.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Another factor is that GI and SGI clubs are more likely to be fitted with higher launching shafts which may be another reason why lower lofts may be necessary to stop the ball simply going too high.

 

[MadAdey]

Another factor is that GI and SGI clubs are more likely to be fitted with higher launching shafts which may be another reason why lower lofts may be necessary to stop the ball simply going too high.

I have low launching shafts in mine. The club fitter in the shop said a few interesting things regarding me having the JPX and he said he would never have recommended them for me. He said that the advantages these types of clubs give is of no use to me and can only be a problem.

Basically he said that on a flightscope the distance, backspin and launch angle are great, but when I have to hit into any type of wind those are going to get exaggerated and make my balloon, which it does. He says that I should have got something like the MP59 if I was wanting Mizuno.