Moving tee markers to help alignment

[LizAig]

I was told one of our members recently moved a set of tee markers in a recent non qualifying comp because they didn’t line her up down the fairway!! She was told she wasn’t allowed to do this but she said she didn’t care and she would do it again!!

I’m sure it’s a general penalty for moving tee markers but would it be a general penalty for each set moved if she moved more then one set. I just want to make sure I have it right as she did this in front of a new player so I need to make sure everyone knows the correct rule.

 

[rulie]

It's a general penalty (and would be each time) if moving the tee-marker improved the conditions affecting the stroke (Rule 8.1).
Otherwise, see the clarification below:

6.2b(4)/1 – Tee-Marker Moved Without Improvement​

If a player causes a tee-marker to move, (such as by tripping over it, hitting it in anger or lifting it for no apparent reason), but this does not improve the conditions affecting the stroke, there is no penalty, even if the player does not replace it before playing from the teeing area.
But because moving tee-markers can have a significant effect on the competition, they should not be moved and, if they are moved, they should be replaced. However, if a player moves a tee-marker because he or she thinks it should be in a different position, or deliberately destroys the tee-marker, the Committee may choose to disqualify the player for serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game (Rule 1.2a).

 

[Billysboots]

It’s a direct breach of Rule 8.1. In short, the rule does not allow for tee markers to be moved if it assists a player in establishing line of play. A two stroke penalty in stroke play, or loss of hole in match play.

 

[Voyager EMH]

What is the rule if a tee marker has been rotated by someone in the group ahead? Spike still in the ground in original position.
Can a player rotate it back to its original position or must the rest of the field be denied the two inches of their potential tee shot?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What is the rule if a tee marker has been rotated by someone in the group ahead? Spike still in the ground in original position.
Can a player rotate it back to its original position or must the rest of the field be denied the two inches of their potential tee shot?

View attachment 50731

How would anyone following know the original direction? How would they know it had been changed?

 

[Voyager EMH]

How would anyone following know the original direction? How would they know it had been changed?

Because it would be at 90° to how markers are always set up and the yellowness of the grass would be clearly visible where the marker had been for several hours beforehand.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

What is the rule if a tee marker has been rotated by someone in the group ahead? Spike still in the ground in original position.
Can a player rotate it back to its original position or must the rest of the field be denied the two inches of their potential tee shot?

View attachment 50731

How would anyone following know the original direction? How would they know it had been changed?

They would know if they left their putt 2 inches short

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Because it would be at 90° to how markers are always set up and the yellowness of the grass would be clearly visible where the marker had been for several hours beforehand.

Why 90⁰? I've seen markers line up straight and also at a slight angle. How would anyone know if someone ahead turned them 20⁰ to help their shot shape?

Yellowness of grass . How quickly does grass change colour near you? At the end of the day, perhaps, but for most of it, particularly for most months, it would be unnoticeable.

People don't analyse tee markets before hitting their shot. Glance at the markers, put the ball down, look where you want to hit it, hit it

 

[Voyager EMH]

Why 90⁰? I've seen markers line up straight and also at a slight angle. How would anyone know if someone ahead turned them 20⁰ to help their shot shape?

Yellowness of grass . How quickly does grass change colour near you? At the end of the day, perhaps, but for most of it, particularly for most months, it would be unnoticeable.

People don't analyse tee markets before hitting their shot. Glance at the markers, put the ball down, look where you want to hit it, hit it

I can't answer those two questions, but my question remains to be answered.

Can rotated tee markers be turned back to the position that everyone else has played to?
This question accepts that the original position is known or is clearly visible.

 

[doublebogey7]

I can't answer those two questions, but my question remains to be answered.

Can rotated tee markers be turned back to the position that everyone else has played to?
This question accepts that the original position is known or is clearly visible.

No is the simple answer though I guess if you were that concerned about losing a couple of inche you could ask the committee to move them back to their original position.

 

[clubchamp98]

I can't answer those two questions, but my question remains to be answered.

Can rotated tee markers be turned back to the position that everyone else has played to?
This question accepts that the original position is known or is clearly visible.

We have round tee markers so it would have to be picked up and moved.

I think you can replace a marker if you can see where it was originally. Depression in the grass
It might have been moved by an animal or accidentally.
But some golfers think they can do as they like and if they move a marker to help with alignment just replace it Where it was.
Not comps obviously!

 

[Steven Rules]

What is the rule if a tee marker has been rotated by someone in the group ahead? Spike still in the ground in original position.
Can a player rotate it back to its original position or must the rest of the field be denied the two inches of their potential tee shot?

View attachment 50731

6.2b(4) refers to missing tee markers. The same principle would probably apply if one or both tee markers had clearly been moved from their original position.

6.2b(4) If a player finds one or both tee-markers missing, the player should seek help from the Committee. But if the Committee is not available in a reasonable time, the player should use their reasonable judgment (Rule 1.3b(2)) to estimate the location of the teeing area.

Clarification 8.1a(10) permits a player to return a movable part of an immovable obstruction back to its intended position. In my opinion, rotating a tee marker on the spot would fit this description.

So it's not out of the question but in my view there would need to be strong evidence that the tee marker is out of position before a player unilaterally takes any remedial action.

 

[LizAig]

It's a general penalty (and would be each time) if moving the tee-marker improved the conditions affecting the stroke (Rule 8.1).
Otherwise, see the clarification below:

6.2b(4)/1 – Tee-Marker Moved Without Improvement​

If a player causes a tee-marker to move, (such as by tripping over it, hitting it in anger or lifting it for no apparent reason), but this does not improve the conditions affecting the stroke, there is no penalty, even if the player does not replace it before playing from the teeing area.
But because moving tee-markers can have a significant effect on the competition, they should not be moved and, if they are moved, they should be replaced. However, if a player moves a tee-marker because he or she thinks it should be in a different position, or deliberately destroys the tee-marker, the Committee may choose to disqualify the player for serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game (Rule 1.2a).

Thanks - that’s what I thought. The player in question is a bit of a mouthy nightmare and whenever challenged about something will just go on a rant saying I’m too obsessed with the rules! I just wanted to make sure I got everything right

 

[rulie]

The amazing part of this "using the tee markers to aid alignment" is that when I'm teeing off, I can only see one of the tee markers, and it doesn't help me at all.

 

[Voyager EMH]

The amazing part of this "using the tee markers to aid alignment" is that when I'm teeing off, I can only see one of the tee markers, and it doesn't help me at all.

I sometimes tee my ball so that I stand outside the teeing area. I can see both tee markers when I do this.
Is that amazing?

 

[Swango1980]

Thanks - that’s what I thought. The player in question is a bit of a mouthy nightmare and whenever challenged about something will just go on a rant saying I’m too obsessed with the rules! I just wanted to make sure I got everything right

Forget about the breached rule regarding moving tee markers. She'd surely be in serious breach of Rule 1.2a (Conduct Expected of All Players)

If I was a Committee member, and was aware that a member openly admitted they'd happily breach rules again, even though the rule had been pointed out to them, I'd be seriously concerned. And if she'd happily breach this one specific rule, what else would she happily do against the rules of the game?

And if I was another member, I wouldn't be happy playing in the same competition with such a person.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I have another question.

What is the correct teeing area if the markers have been set up so that the direction of play is not at 90 degrees to the line between the markers?



If the direction of play is the thicker arrow, is the ball with the ? below it in or out of the teeing area?

I have taken the direction of play to be a straight shot played down the centre of the fairway that comes to rest in the centre of the fairway with no significant deviation to the left or right in the air or on the ground before coming to rest.

 

[Swango1980]

I have another question.

What is the correct teeing area if the markers have been set up so that the direction of play is not at 90 degrees to the line between the markers?

View attachment 50743

If the direction of play is the thicker arrow, is the ball with the ? below it in or out of the teeing area?

I have taken the direction of play to be a straight shot played down the centre of the fairway that comes to rest in the centre of the fairway with no significant deviation to the left or right in the air or on the ground before coming to rest.

The teeing area is a rectangle, not a parallelogram

At any rate, the direction of play might be different for different golfers.

 

[Voyager EMH]

The teeing area is a rectangle, not a parallelogram

At any rate, the direction of play might be different for different golfers.

I believe that to be true. But can we find that in the rule book?

 

[LizAig]

Forget about the breached rule regarding moving tee markers. She'd surely be in serious breach of Rule 1.2a (Conduct Expected of All Players)

If I was a Committee member, and was aware that a member openly admitted they'd happily breach rules again, even though the rule had been pointed out to them, I'd be seriously concerned. And if she'd happily breach this one specific rule, what else would she happily do against the rules of the game?

And if I was another member, I wouldn't be happy playing in the same competition with such a person.

I agree - sadly we are a very small section and I’d say there are 6 or 7 who know and stick to the rules and the others are more ‘flexible’ with the rules!! I get tired of being cast as the spoilsport because I DQ people or remind them of rules! I will be having a word with her and letting all ladies know the rule so they are aware too!