Moral Dilemma

[The Fader]

I don't see this as a moral dilemma.

The online booking sites have a commercial contract / agreement with the clubs. No one held a gun to their head. Whether or not individuals believe it to bad business the clubs in question obviously don't feel the same. A quck look at tee times available around me shows that most clubs outside of those regarded as being at the very top table are making times available. Is everyone struggling?

The "Hot Times" as I understand it are effectively part of the payment they receive to cover the service provided by the booking site. What they charge for them is down to pure economics of what they think they can sell them for. It's a risk to the site because if the time doesn't sell - they make no money. Having used Golfnow regularly when playing in America - you can literally watch hot time fees fall by the minute as the tee time approaches.

Let's say a club offer just 2 tee times a day Monday to Friday at discounted rates to attract visitors. Times that would otherwise be unused. So let's do the sums, ignoring Hot times as they are a different animal:

The tee times are unused = £0
10 tee times a week generating say, £40 per 4 ball after the sites cut is (potentially)= £20,800. Even if only 1 time a day is sold it's still £10k+. Not to mention additional bar and food revenue

Not many clubs are going to turn that down - struggling or not.

 

[garyinderry]

Really handy when living in a high density area of courses.

One might catch your eye that you hadnt even thought about.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Looking at that list, I am glad I am not a nomad.

In what way. Yes there are some bang average courses there still some decent members courses on there at good prices.

 

[Springveldt]

I'm not seeing a moral dilemma here at all to be honest. You phoned them and gave them the option to match and they refused, so I'd take the deal every time.

If the club had come back and said "we can't match it but can do it for £18 a head" I'd have went with that but since they are 60% more than the deal price, I'd take the deal and not even think twice about it. It's not your job to support clubs, if you are still feeling conflicted about it buy a pint after the round, you will still have supported the club that way.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I admire the OP for his diligence in trying to get the club to match the price but as a nomad golfer, I'm afraid I'd take the callous approach and want the best deal every time so my £ goes further and I have as much money available to spend on green fees.

I don't play nomadic golf too much other than when playing social golf with some mates and regularly use places like Tee off Times. To suggest the courses on here are struggling, more so those offering hot deals is a joke. Just look at some of the names based on a search for today that come up https://www.teeofftimes.co.uk/tee-times/hot-deals#date=Jul+31+2019 and it smacks of some kind of snobbery to relate hot deals to a club that must be in desperate need of cash or they aren't worth playing

Don't wish to be argumentative but have you done any financial searchs on those golf clubs to state its a joke in such a manner ? Probably not at a guess ? (I only ask as I just looked at 5 of them quickly and 2-3 out of the 5 I looked at, I would not wish their financial positions, for instance one had a going concern report on their accounts)

Think it is fair to say that no one can say for definite one way or another but it is likely that if the courses were packed with members/high green fees, then the deals would not be available, as the clubs would not allow it.

 

[Springveldt]

I don't see this as a moral dilemma.

The online booking sites have a commercial contract / agreement with the clubs. No one held a gun to their head. Whether or not individuals believe it to bad business the clubs in question obviously don't feel the same. A quck look at tee times available around me shows that most clubs outside of those regarded as being at the very top table are making times available. Is everyone struggling?

The "Hot Times" as I understand it are effectively part of the payment they receive to cover the service provided by the booking site. What they charge for them is down to pure economics of what they think they can sell them for. It's a risk to the site because if the time doesn't sell - they make no money. Having used Golfnow regularly when playing in America - you can literally watch hot time fees fall by the minute as the tee time approaches.

Let's say a club offer just 2 tee times a day Monday to Friday at discounted rates to attract visitors. Times that would otherwise be unused. So let's do the sums, ignoring Hot times as they are a different animal:

The tee times are unused = £0
10 tee times a week generating say, £40 per 4 ball after the sites cut is (potentially)= £20,800. Even if only 1 time a day is sold it's still £10k+. Not to mention additional bar and food revenue

Not many clubs are going to turn that down - struggling or not.

I was under the impression the club got nothing from the hot deals, if it's £15 on the site, the site takes the whole £15. The club are giving out tee times that would normally be empty anyway, so they get to advertise the club to the visitor who may also spend something at the bar or food etc.

 

[Karl102]

You called and asked them to match, that is all you can do.
Maybe go, spend a few quid in the pro shop, have lunch and a few beers/coffee's. Club will make its money that way!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Don't wish to be argumentative but have you done any financial searchs on those golf clubs to state its a joke in such a manner ? Probably not at a guess ? (I only ask as I just looked at 5 of them quickly and 2-3 out of the 5 I looked at, I would not wish their financial positions, for instance one had a going concern report on their accounts)

Think it is fair to say that no one can say for definite one way or another but it is likely that if the courses were packed with members/high green fees, then the deals would not be available, as the clubs would not allow it.

I can only go on playing the likes of some regularly in matches and talking to their members and the reputations (as I know them either from personal experience or word or mouth). Out of interest which do you consider to be "in poor financial health". I know Reading golf club has sold out and bought out Caversham Heath so I would suggest if that is one of them the situation would be changing especially with money due for the sale of the course to developers.

I would argue, that clubs may actually be quite savvy getting players in, especially those in the locality as it gives them a chance to show the course and the club off and if they are switched on to who is coming regularly as a nomad do some progressive work to entice them with memberships. With the majority of course being populated Monday-Friday, especially before 4.00pm with those no longer working, it seems sound business sense to get people on the course and take the money. I would be less inclined as a member if it happened on a weekend morning of course but even then my own course can be dead from 2.30-3.00pm on some Saturdays so again why not?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I was under the impression the club got nothing from the hot deals, if it's £15 on the site, the site takes the whole £15. The club are giving out tee times that would normally be empty anyway, so they get to advertise the club to the visitor who may also spend something at the bar or food etc.

In the example I quoted the hot deals were either early morning or lunchtime. We took the lunchtime ones & turned up mid morning to hit balls. The club in question would offer us the opportunity to go early if there were tee times (and there usually were) which were empty but were the higher priced times. It would surprise me if they were putting us into slots that they were receiving absolutely nothing for. And this club is well enough known in the market they are in that they wouldn't need to advertise, so I'm not seeing any benefit to the club if GolfNow get the times for nothing.

 

[Marshy77]

For us Nomads in West Yorkshire I could book a round on many of the better course's such as Headingley, Hollins, Otley, Sand Moor, Moortown, Rudding, Leeds, Moor Allerton, Oulton, Pannal, Harrogate.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

£15 to play and your putting money behind the bar. Hope the club have the decency to give a good prize pot to you and your mates for the round!

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Deleted member 21258]

https://www.linksmagazine.com/how-does-golfnow-work-and-does-it-save-you-money/

Here are some details on how website like golfnow work. Basically what some people have previously posted on here.

The another clubs view point on it :-

http://www.myoaksgolfcourse.com/our-stance-on-golfnow/

 

[HomerJSimpson]

https://www.linksmagazine.com/how-does-golfnow-work-and-does-it-save-you-money/

Here are some details on how website like golfnow work. Basically what some people have previously posted on here.

The another clubs view point on it :-

http://www.myoaksgolfcourse.com/our-stance-on-golfnow/

Without courting an argument these articles are US based and I'd argue perhaps the whole thing has a different structure and feel in the UK than the US and that maybe the whole booking green fee mechanics over here is different

 

[TreeSeeker]

calling to match is more than I would hve done. As a few others have said i dont see a dilemma here, they choose to deal with whichever partners, and whatever price they offer is part of that
.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Without courting an argument these articles are US based and I'd argue perhaps the whole thing has a different structure and feel in the UK than the US and that maybe the whole booking green fee mechanics over here is different

I have just done another quick search on how it works in the UK rather than guessing wrongly(joke) and straight from the UK teeofftime website terms and conditions it states :-

https://www.teeofftimes.co.uk/support/about-us/terms-and-conditions

HOT DEALSâ„¢
7.1 We sometimes team up with our Golf Course partners and/or provide such Golf Course partners with other services in exchange for being able to offer exclusive tee times at prices set by us at our discretion, these are known as Hot Dealsâ„¢.

So basically hot deals are for services if the club is not paying for the setup direct and other tee times if I had to guess would be a transaction fee basis(as cant be bothered to read all the terms and conditions). This has been posted on the forum before by someone.

I do get that the website helps to get your name out there to a wider audience than just on the clubs website, and helps to sell tee times but hot deals are not as such benefiting the club direct.

 

[Crazyface]

I won’t ever touch the “hot deal” type websites - they aren’t great for golf clubs and mainly used by clubs desperate for money or struggling

For the sake of £9 and to ensure all the money goes to the club it’s got to be better to deal with the club


Nomads whilst they have a place in the sport aren’t helping some clubs survive - clubs need regular income and these sites by undercutting the clubs won’t help keep clubs alive and then when the “cheaper pay and play” clubs start to swindle and the standard starts to drop and nomads struggle to find somewhere to play then it’s because of the drive for cheaper tee times from these websites

We need to support the clubs as much as possible - without them we wouldn’t have anywhere to play , there will also be great deals directly with the club - but for the sake of £9 ?! Go to the club

LOL. Hark at mr moneybags! So you don't ever go and get the best deal available to you? Well that must be great knowing you are supporting the economy in the best way possible. Good for you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

LOL. Hark at mr moneybags! So you don't ever go and get the best deal available to you? Well that must be great knowing you are supporting the economy in the best way possible. Good for you.

I go to the best deal the club offer knowing that the money goes to them and no one else - if I can’t afford it then I just don’t go. Not sure how that makes me “moneybags”

 

[sam85]

I admire the OP for his diligence in trying to get the club to match the price but as a nomad golfer, I'm afraid I'd take the callous approach and want the best deal every time so my £ goes further and I have as much money available to spend on green fees.

I don't play nomadic golf too much other than when playing social golf with some mates and regularly use places like Tee off Times. To suggest the courses on here are struggling, more so those offering hot deals is a joke. Just look at some of the names based on a search for today that come up https://www.teeofftimes.co.uk/tee-times/hot-deals#date=Jul+31+2019 and it smacks of some kind of snobbery to relate hot deals to a club that must be in desperate need of cash or they aren't worth playing

I'm far from a snob but most of those clubs nearby to me on there are all pretty poor. Rightly or wrongly my impression of clubs on these sites are that they are very average golf courses.

 

[robinthehood]

I'm far from a snob but most of those clubs nearby to me on there are all pretty poor. Rightly or wrongly my impression of clubs on these sites are that they are very average golf courses.

If you only look at the hot deals then that may be the case. Plenty of good stuff on there too, not all clubs offer hot deals

 

[richart]

East Brighton for £20 looks good. Need Smiffy to sort out a meet there.