Modern Thinking?

[Sats]

After reading the article and the forum post about memberships and are they value for money. I got thinking about how rigid a lot of memberships are either;

1/ Payment - Some clubs will ask for deposits, some ask for the amount over 4 months, some add a % for being a monthly member
2/ Times - 5 day memberships, 7 day, flexi
3/ Entrance hoops - Be nominated, have an interview.
4/ Gender/Age - Seniors, juniors, ladies

This list is not exhaustive, just some of the hoops that I've either seen or heard about.

Now, I am a member of a gym - I pay a subscription amount per month - I get all access to the gym - in fact there is only 1 tariff at the gym - no requirements, no added bits, no time limits, just pay to use the gym and if you don't pay you don't use it (The access to the gym requires your PIN and if you haven't paid it won't let you in.)

Please don't get me wrong, I understand that a gym and a golf course are different in terms of upkeep/maintenance - but surely a more simple approach to membership would attract more people?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Whilst the theory is sound - practically they are vastly different And also in a lot of cases a lot more expensive and complex to run than a gym

Golf clubs also have different situations - is it a private members , pay and play , a members course owned by a single person or group - joining fees for private clubs that give a joining member an bit the club.

I expect there is a lot more to add

 

[jim8flog]

If you join a gym nobody cares how fit you are already.

Join some golf courses and they will definitely expect you to be reasonably competent already.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If you join a gym nobody cares how fit you are already.

Join some golf courses and they will definitely expect you to be reasonably competent already.

Sorry but I would hope a lot of clubs would be welcoming to all regardless of their ability as a golfer - how are new people to the sport expect to become members otherwise

 

[Imurg]

Sorry but I would hope a lot of clubs would be welcoming to all regardless of their ability as a golfer - how are new people to the sport expect to become members otherwise

Slightly off topic but some clubs won't let you join as a newbie until you've served some time in the "Academy" and then proved some ability during a round.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Slightly off topic but some clubs won't let you join as a newbie until you've served some time in the "Academy" and then proved some ability during a round.

“Some” but would suggest a good amount less in recent years because a lot of clubs can’t afford to be so picky.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Join some golf courses and they will definitely expect you to be reasonably competent already.

And wear the correct socks! 😉😂😂

 

[Imurg]

Well, as Jim said, "some".......doesn't mean all, lots, the majority, most...just some.

 

[Jacko_G]

The majority of golf clubs are that desperate for cold hard cash they will accept any new willing member. Regardless of ability. We all had to start somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The majority of golf clubs are that desperate for cold hard cash they will accept any new willing member. Regardless of ability. We all had to start somewhere.

Pretty much that - and lets be honest you are not going to get anyone just wanting to join a club without hitting a ball - they will have had a taster somewhere and most playing interviews will be more about the “etiquette” and ensure the person behaves in the right way on a course

 

[USER1999]

The amount of money required to maintain a golf course requires members to make a years commitment. If the majority only wanted to be seasonal members, budgeting to cover the winter would either be a nightmare, or seasonal membership would be off puttingly expensive.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Gyms are a relatively modern phenomenon and so are not weighed down with decades of tradition and stuck in the mud rules. The chain's in particular are big businesses and professionally run on business lines. They are not run by committee, will not put barriers in front of you in terms of joining. There must be many a golf manager who looks enviously at gym managers.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Gyms are a relatively modern phenomenon and so are not weighed down with decades of tradition and stuck in the mud rules. The chain's in particular are big businesses and professionally run on business lines. They are not run by committee, will not put barriers in front of you in terms of joining. There must be many a golf manager who looks enviously at gym managers.

You have such a negative view about golf clubs and the game itself - you don’t seem to mind lumping all the clubs in the same bracket. I can say in a certainty that thousands of clubs around the country are working hard to remove barriers and make the sport as welcoming as possible

It’s a shame some have a massive chip on their shoulder and always display a negative attitude towards the game and members clubs - were you turned down by one or something

The negativity displayed prob does more damage to attracting people than golf clubs and the rules - imagine what someone would think if they were looking to start the game and they read a post like that from someone who plays the sport

There will always be clubs that ask you to go through barriers but the sport shouldn’t be judged on those clubs

 

[Papas1982]

Gyms are a relatively modern phenomenon and so are not weighed down with decades of tradition and stuck in the mud rules. The chain's in particular are big businesses and professionally run on business lines. They are not run by committee, will not put barriers in front of you in terms of joining. There must be many a golf manager who looks enviously at gym managers.

Gyms usually want a full years commitment, just like a golf club. Trying to leave a gym has been mocked in comedy many time such are the barriers they put up to prevent it.

They may recently be changing, but imo they aren't some sort of perfect system that golf clubs should aspire too.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

You have such a negative view about golf clubs and the game itself - you don’t seem to mind lumping all the clubs in the same bracket. I can say in a certainty that thousands of clubs around the country are working hard to remove barriers and make the sport as welcoming as possible

It’s a shame some have a massive chip on their shoulder and always display a negative attitude towards the game and members clubs - were you turned down by one or something

The negativity displayed prob does more damage to attracting people than golf clubs and the rules - imagine what someone would think if they were looking to start the game and they read a post like that from someone who plays the sport

There will always be clubs that ask you to go through barriers but the sport shouldn’t be judged on those clubs

No idea where you have invented this view from but hey, if it makes you happy.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Gyms usually want a full years commitment, just like a golf club. Trying to leave a gym has been mocked in comedy many time such are the barriers they put up to prevent it.

They may recently be changing, but imo they aren't some sort of perfect system that golf clubs should aspire too.

Sats made the point in his opening post about the years membership so that is acknowledged as being the same. Your second point reminded me of the Friends episode where Ross tried to leave and he and Chandler both ended up signing on for another year. Funny episode and I take your point.

I wasn't suggesting that gyms are the model to follow but their lack of historical baggage means that they are free to try recruitment and retention methods that would not be accepted in many golf clubs. They can be more up to date, more aggressive in their techniques. Not all will work, what does in business, but I am sure some lessons could be learned, as the OP has suggested.

 

[Grant85]

Gyms are going to be profit making enterprises, Golf Clubs in general are not.

However you have to think what a business would do if they were faced with running a golf course and trying to turn a profit. Possibly many would go for the high volume / lower cost business model and that may be successful in some cases.

A big problem in the U.K. is that clubs have been established for decades and for most of those decades were in great shape as member run golf clubs. They are resistant to change and often not even willing to consider options.

Probably the big one that is not done much in the UK is diversification.
* Running a proper decent restaurant within the club. Not just a menu in the golf lounge, but a nice restaurant in its own right that doesn’t feel like you are eating in a golf club.
* Gym / Spa / Hotel within the golf course. Obviously a lot of privately owned venues do this, but not many member owned clubs would consider this kind of venture.
* property on the outskirts of the course for rental / sale

Clearly many of these are not palatable to members clubs and and will not be suitable to most clubs, even if they wanted to do them. Plus there is a different feeling around a member owned club compared to a profit making business.

Ultimately most clubs that are struggling end up squeezing their existing members and have reached the point where they have no capital to invest to attempt any legitimate options.

 

[Wolf]

Well speaking as a Gym Manager for a large well known chain that has pool, spa, group exercise and gym facilities....

The similarities in running a Gym and running a good club literally ends at the manager having to work according to budget constraints and having a years contract for membership...

Running a place like mine entails bowing to corporate boffins, regional management, ensuring month on month membership targets are hit, whilst trying to stem the flow of people leaving.. Working towards KPI targets, dealing with external contractors for work that's required, managing reception teams, sales teams, PT's, class instructors, health & safety and a whole host of a lot more. Thing with gyms though once your annual membership is up it's literally a rolling contract! To be honest my jobs pretty easy as long as my management team do their jobs I really don't have to do a great deal except steer the ship..

Running a golf club however I'd say even without having done that has got to be a whole lot harder than my job! They have to manage every single part of the operation to the most minute degree of detail, they'll have a a lot of similarities to my set up of staffing but have to be a lot more hands on, they also don't have rolling contract luxuries, they have a lot more revenue streams that they have to manage, more diverse order processing and budget constraints placed upon them.

They also have to deal with The most fickle of people GOLFERS!. I think a good club manager has a whole lot more to deal with than a gym manager, the business model similarities literally end on the fact it's classed as a leisure industry.

I understand why the comparison has been made but having worked in one of the industries for some time now I can categorically say even saying offering a more simplified membership is easier said than done.. The simple overheads of a golf club means they need to have stringent memberships like they do, because otherwise your courses would massively decline, they aren't in most part corporations where they are part of a bigger picture, they're stand alone business led and if they offered to much in way of budget memberships they would not be sustainable for long or the quality would diminish meaning more and more revenue needed where does this come from either the members paying more or through selling it off!

Sometimes it's better the devil you know and if the membership doesn't suit the individual on price then harsh as it sounds shop elsewhere because without the revenue they generate the course would not be there!

 

[upsidedown]

Gyms are going to be profit making enterprises, Golf Clubs in general are not.

However you have to think what a business would do if they were faced with running a golf course and trying to turn a profit. Possibly many would go for the high volume / lower cost business model and that may be successful in some cases.

A big problem in the U.K. is that clubs have been established for decades and for most of those decades were in great shape as member run golf clubs. They are resistant to change and often not even willing to consider options.

Probably the big one that is not done much in the UK is diversification.
* Running a proper decent restaurant within the club. Not just a menu in the golf lounge, but a nice restaurant in its own right that doesn’t feel like you are eating in a golf club.
* Gym / Spa / Hotel within the golf course. Obviously a lot of privately owned venues do this, but not many member owned clubs would consider this kind of venture.
* property on the outskirts of the course for rental / sale

Clearly many of these are not palatable to members clubs and and will not be suitable to most clubs, even if they wanted to do them. Plus there is a different feeling around a member owned club compared to a profit making business.

Ultimately most clubs that are struggling end up squeezing their existing members and have reached the point where they have no capital to invest to attempt any legitimate options.

A good read here https://www.englandgolf.org/news.as...s.aspx?sitesectionid=38&sitesectiontitle=News

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Two separate entities in my book but joined by the fact that both will ultimately stand and fall by the management and staff and the efforts they put in to provide the best product they can within the constraints of budget. I don't think the years of crap with rules on dress code, age restrictions come into it. If the product is sound, it'll work and attract the customers and if they get a service they enjoy they'll stay and renew the membership. If not they'll look elsewhere